Civility in Practice with SHRM’s Emily Dickens
About This Episode
In a world where incivility seems to be on the rise, both in our personal lives and in the workplace, how can we, as individuals, make a difference? Emily Dickens, Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs, and Corporate Secretary for SHRM, believes the answer lies in practicing civility—one conversation at a time.
This week on Mission Forward, Carrie Fox delves into the power of civility with Dickens. They explore how simple acts of kindness, empathy, and grace can transform workplace cultures and why HR professionals play a critical role in driving this change.
Dickens shares personal anecdotes from her unconventional career journey, highlighting how access to education and mentors who believed in her potential shaped her mission to elevate the HR profession. She discusses SHRM's recently launched Civility Campaign and why leading with a "care for others" approach is far more effective than the all-too-common "self-serving" leadership style.
Fox and Dickens also tackle tough questions about navigating the post-COVID workplace, balancing empathy with accountability, and the dangers of labeling others based on limited interactions. Dickens emphasizes the importance of recognizing that "we are all more than our worst thing" and giving others the grace to evolve.
This is a conversation that can challenge the way you think about your daily interactions and inspire you to strengthen your own "civility muscle." As Dickens notes, even the smallest gestures can spark a ripple effect, empowering us all to build more respectful, inclusive, and thriving workplaces.
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Carrie Fox:
Hey there and welcome to Mission Forward. Before we get into this episode, I want to share that we've got a wonderful sponsor who has helped create some content for this season, and that's SHRM. Did you know that most American workers experience incivility at work? And one-third believe it will only get worse. SHRM, the trusted authority on all things work believes that civility is a cornerstone of workplace culture and that it allows people and businesses to thrive. Imagine a world of work that fosters respect across the exchange of ideas and opinions. While SHRM is on a mission to empower all of us to transform our workplaces one conversation at a time. Learn how at SHRM.org. And now onto today's show.
Emily Dickens:
Breaking News. Breaking News. It's the year of the chat bot. It's the latest setback for climate... The latest Supreme Court ruling. The court is set to redefine... In the latest Supreme Court ruling, the court is set to redefine-
Carrie Fox:
Hi there and welcome to the Mission Forward podcast. I'm Carrie Fox. Your host and CEO of Mission Partners, a social impact communications firm and certified B corporation. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. So today's show is part of a special three-part series that we're bringing you in partnership with SHRM. In this three-part series, we are focusing on civility, the future of work, and the role that we each play as leaders to build inclusive, equitable, and thriving workplaces. And today we have the perfect person to guide us through this conversation. Emily Dickens is the chief of staff, head of government affairs, and corporate secretary for SHRM. She's a connector advocate and educator who believes in the power of creating teams and cultures that reward loyalty, drive productivity, and promote innovation. As Emily says, "With so much of our time spent working, we need to create workplaces focused on civility, accountability, and making an impact in the world." Well, that pretty much sums up my reason for being. So it is no surprise that I'm thrilled to have this time with Emily today. Emily, welcome to Mission Forward.
Emily Dickens:
Thank you so much for having me.
Carrie Fox:
I'd love you to tell us a little more about you. How did you come to this line of such deeply purposeful work that you do today?
Emily Dickens:
So I think the one word that describes my career path is unconventional. I am a first generation HBCU grad who really just wanted to be a lawyer because that's success. Lawyer or doctor, that is success in our community. But I knew early on I didn't want to spend all my time in a courtroom
And in law school, my last year of law school, I had the opportunity to learn more about public policy and being a lobbyist and working in local government and ended up with the first job of working in local government for the mayor of a town called Chapel Hill in North Carolina, and really understanding how when people pay really high taxes, they have high expectations. So that was a great experience, which led me to working in higher education at the state level and ultimately for one of the largest higher education systems in the country, the University of North Carolina system, and then ultimately in DC as a VP of public policy. My career has been someone with a background in public policy, legislative affairs, registered lobbyist I've been a time or two as well.
I was working with our current CEO on something that I was passionate about, access to higher ed. I was a general counselor at an organization called Thurgood Marshall College Fund. And Johnny then got our CEO, got an offer to come to SHRM and I was happy for him and worried about how we were going to continue to raise money at the other location because he gave us six months notice, which is great. But turns out Johnny had other plans and told me I was coming to SHRM to be chief of staff. So ended up at SHRM. And it's funny that you asked that question about mission and purpose because for the first few months I kept thinking how can I, what's the mission, what's the purpose here? This is a trade association. It's a membership association. And for years I've been this voice, this advocate for people to have access to higher ed who couldn't afford it. So I always had that purpose, always knew that why because I knew education changes lives. And ultimately HR changes lives.
And that's how I became more comfortable with the purpose here. It's just that the HR profession needed a voice and they needed an elevated voice to talk about what they do because, guess what? They don't talk about what they do. They put their heads down, they get it done. They try to keep employees happy, they try to keep employers happy and they're often stuck in the middle. And they are never giving themselves a pat on the back about the lives they're changing anytime they help push through bonuses and salary increases and professional development opportunities anytime they place people in their next job and their next job, you're changing lives and livelihoods. And HR really doesn't give itself the credit it should.
So my purpose and mission now is to be that voice and to use the voices of our members and our A team, which is our advocacy team, which is close to 30,000 people, in making sure that there are laws and regulations and policy that make workplaces better so our professionals can continue to contribute positively to lives and livelihoods.
Carrie Fox:
Wow. Oh my gosh, Emily, I love that so much. And I'm thinking about all of the times over the years I have heard someone, a leader in a moment of transition or in a challenging environment. And what they often say is, is there a policy for this? It is the go-to that we think about the importance of good effective policy both at the federal and the state level, but also really internal policy. And you're guiding that so effectively. You, Emily, are so clear in your values and your principles. And I wonder if there's anything you want to share about where that clarity comes from because it's really inspirational to see how you talk about your work and your values.
Emily Dickens:
I would just say when you are given the opportunity to do better and to be better than those before you, that with... What did Spiderman say? With great responsibility... There's a responsibility knowing that I have benefited again from that access to higher education where others didn't benefit, access to people who were able to see my work, want me to do better and be better and help me along the journey in my work and put me in this place. With great power, comes great responsibility. So I have a great power to help change lives through my work and I have a responsibility to bring people along with me and to help others in that way. I think the more you give back, the more you get. And so you're constantly giving because you're receiving so much.
Carrie Fox:
So we've got that power and responsibility in common. I often say there's great power in how we communicate. And how we shape culture, how we shape behavior, how we build civility starts really with how we communicate and engage and listen, right? Both, the two-way communication. And that's some of what we're going to talk about today. I'm so excited to get into this conversation with you. This is the second conversation we're having as noted earlier, we're coming off of this great conversation with Jim last week. And he told us a little bit about this civility campaign and some of the new research behind it. But I'd love to hear more from you. What inspires you and excites you about the civility campaign that recently launched?
Emily Dickens:
So I shared the story of working for the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. I was general counsel there. I was so excited to take that job because, what lawyer doesn't want to be a general counsel, right? But I was also excited to get away from working in the policy arena and the legislative space. You saw at that point that elected officials were not being as kind to one another. And there was a point in this country where you would look at other countries and on the bloopers show... You'd see people fighting at their county and state legislature and we would think it was so funny. Us, we were laughing at it. But the idea that that could happen here seemed so far-fetched. But the more vitriol that you saw happening between people who were on different sides of the aisle made it a not so fun place to work.
And I remember I walked the halls of state legislatures as well as Capitol Hill. And so wanting to get away from that negativity is one of the reasons I wanted to leave that space. And so we're so happy to go and do just focus on the law. Ultimately, I ended up having responsibility for government affairs. And one of the things my boss said to me is we could do things differently. "We don't have to do things the way everyone has been doing things and this is an opportunity for you to make it better." And I love that. And I think this is another example of we don't have to do things the way others do it.
At SHRM, our mantra is policy, not politics. It's simple, three words. But it says that we believe that we can convene people around a critical issue. Everyone will not agree, but that the outcome will be something that serves and benefits the most people. And so while the two sides may walk away from the table not completely a hundred percent happy, I'm okay with that because more people have received an outcome that will make their lives and livelihoods better. And so when you think about civility, the more we get people deciding that they are not going to buy into the negativity, that they are going to with intention be civil in their discussions with people, even if they disagree, that they're going to listen with their hearts and their minds and even if they still disagree, work to come to some common denominator that will work the best for all people.
So that's why I'm so excited about this campaign. I've seen how our bodies of government are no longer working in a manner that works for us when we think about how we've not had a regular order of business as it relates to a budget for this country in such a long time, when we see state legislatures where there are power grabs for the administrative portion of the government. And so you've got the governor's rights being taken away by the legislature via legislation, where you're seeing all of this.
And it's not based on it being the best thing for the people of that state, it's because one party wants to power grab now. Now let me just say power grabs have been going on for years, but it's a way to do it. And there have been for years where states have been able to manage the separation of powers. The issue is now people feel so mad about something that someone did to them years ago or they don't like you. And so we're going to take away all your power in a way that doesn't benefit our people. So being civil and talking about civility is something we think people will take a moment to think about. And just take that moment to think about how I can be a better person, how this one conversation today can lead to better conversations tomorrow.
Carrie Fox:
You are sparking something so deep for me as I think about reflecting on politics, but maybe leaders more broadly, that it is very common to see leaders take a self-driven approach, a self-serving approach versus a care for others approach. And I think what you all are reminding folks is that it is far more valuable and effective to lead with a care for others approach.
Emily Dickens:
It is. Do you remember, there's a book called Everything I Should know, I learned in Kindergarten. And I say this often, we need to go back to kindergarten when you were forced to share, when you were forced to be nice to someone. If your classmates started to cry, you knew to go get the tissue box and tried to allay their fears or concerns or whatever it was that made them cry. You need to care about the person on the other side of the table. And look, you can show that care and concern without really liking that person. There's some basics to civility and there are another human that has a stake in whatever this is and understanding that they have a constituency that has concerns, you have a constituency that has concerns. And it is so important that we try to make it work for everyone and being kind.
And look, you can be, remember there's this thing about killing with kindness. That's not really a bad thing to show that you're kind to someone. I think I mentioned I spent most of my college years in the south. And we used to say you'd never know in the south if someone was really mad at you because everything always came off sweet and syrupy. And I'm a New Yorker, so for us we're pretty much direct. So I had to learn how to work in that space. And you never really knew if the person across the table couldn't stand you or not because there was that sweetness that comes across, that southern kindness that at least made it a civil discussion. Even if the two of you walk out later on and there's not a mutual like, you've shown care by making sure your conversation at that moment didn't evolve into something that was negative. And so I just think that's important that we think about. There are ways for us to show civil life behavior in everything we do, no matter who is across the table.
Carrie Fox:
I want to talk a bit about today's workplaces. But before I do, I'm going to share a quick story with you. I'm reflecting back on the early days of 2020, early days of the pandemic when there was this deep care in many neighborhoods and communities of folks coming out and supporting one another. And it was during that time, actually leading up to that time, my daughter and I, who was 10 at the time, wrote a book on kindness. It's called Adventures in Kindness.
And we wrote it because she was watching national politicians on stage acting very mean and she couldn't process why some of the most powerful people in the world could be so mean. And we said, "Well, if we don't like that, then let's model the opposite." And opposite in her mind was kindness. And so we wrote a book that ultimately was shared all around the world, but it's 52 adventures that kids and their families can take to build a better world. And what you're all doing with the civility campaign, it's almost the adult version of that, right? Which is you have to practice the skill in order for it... It's like a muscle, right? You've got to practice and grow and strengthen the muscle in order for it to be there.
Emily Dickens:
Look, I think we've had a natural evolution here at SHRM to where we are today. A few years ago, our CEO started talking about empathy. And one of his key talking points is that every leader must strengthen their empathy muscle. So it's interesting to use that term. You do. Now, one of the things we did see, and I'm going to be blatantly honest, is that you don't want to strengthen that muscle and use it to your detriment. So just like you have the bodybuilder who for some reason his arms are huge and then he's got skinny legs, so there's not been a focus on evening out and making sure that it's going all the way through.
And so we saw leaders being burned out and we are seeing leaders and people managers being burnt out because they're leaning into empathy so much. And the issue is the people who are reporting to them are not showing the same level of empathy for them. So as a people manager, the level of stress that you're seeing because you're trying to be accommodating to your employees, but there is no effort on their part because they don't feel like they got to accommodate you as the worker. And we've had these workplaces that are in demand now because we have this talent shortage in this country, 2.4 million jobs that have gone that are still going unfilled.
So there is this supply and demand. And when you're in demand, you are thinking you can make all the demands. And the demand of your leaders is that they'd be more empathetic and kind. You can be empathetic, you can be kind, and you can still have requirements that people do their job. And I think the problem is with everything else, there is a balance. And that's why we need to talk about this, because there is a way to do this. You can say no to someone, but you can do it in a civil manner. And it goes always, it's going up or down because remember, that people manager has a manager. And they're being asked to do more, to be more cognizant of the flexibility needs because again, post Covid, as we talked about, the workplace has changed a bit and we are very aware that people who have caregiving needs and need flexibility in how and where they do their work.
But we're also aware that with inflation and wage inflation as well, that businesses still have to meet the bottom line. And that bottom line, employees have to understand it's not just their base salary. We had a discussion today about health and wellness. The cost of health and wellness has definitely increased as well. And that's a separate line in the budget. And so when we're being civil to one another, I can have a conversation with a direct report to say, "I may not be able to give you an increase right now. But let me inform you about why that's the case." A blanket, "No, and I'm tired of people asking me..." There are ways to be civil in every type of difficult conversation and to do it with kindness.
I think we're just evolving from this understanding that we had to be more empathetic during Covid. Then we had to continue that empathy, strengthen that muscle in the effort to retain the talent that we need when there is this war for talent. Now maybe it's our terminology. When you're telling people you're in a war for talent, people are thinking war instead of thinking, "Okay. How do we retain our talent in a way that is empathetic and that is kind and it's serving the purpose of the work, the worker and the workplace?" So we're very passionate about this. But just because you're kind and civil doesn't make you a pushover and it doesn't mean that everything you say says, "Yes, we're going to do." It means that we're going to have a discussion like adults and more so a discussion like two kindergartners where we are taught to be nice and kind to the person on the other side of the table.
Carrie Fox:
You're reminding me of Brene Brown's Clear is Kind. And what we practice at Mission Partners is transparency as much as we can to share, we have rationales in the decisions we make, we listen to every idea that comes our way. We can't accept every idea, but we'll dig into every idea that comes our way and we'll think about how to collaborate on those solutions. And so what I'm hearing you say is there are a lot of leaders who are going through this, who are kind of wrestling with how do you return from that post Covid era and put some policies maybe back in place or adjust policies to support the future of work now.
Emily Dickens:
You do. I love that focus on transparency. And we talk a lot about, people want transparency. But then when they get it, is it really what they want? Because transparency can be yes or no. And I think people say when transparency means going to be everything I want to hear, and that's not the case. People don't want to hear that there will be layoffs or reorganizations. But I'm being transparent. In my way, I'm being kind enough to give you a heads-up that there is a change that will impact you because we have seen employers who weren't kind enough to do that and considerate enough and empathetic enough to give the heads-up that there will be changes that could impact you and your livelihood. And this is so important when we're thinking about it.
I want people to be more civil in how they talk about things that aren't good. I think it's easy to be civil about something you and I both enjoy. It's clear from this conversation we have a commonality. We love to read, we love to think about quotes that can move with us and we can carry on. And I've found that commonality. And so you and I can talk like this all day, every day. But what if I were telling you that we're not going to be able to do work with you anymore? That's a hard conversation. How do I deliver that in a kind way? And then how do you respond in a civil manner so that we have preserved this relationship so when there's a time for change and I can come back to you and say, "I think we can work together again," we both feel positive about how we ended things?
Carrie Fox:
So I want to run something by you. I think about this difference between dignity and respect and that every human deserves dignity. The bully might not deserve respect. But the bully still deserves dignity as a human. And it comes back to that idea of every human matters. It doesn't mean we're going to agree with one another. It doesn't mean we need to hold hands and say we're best friends forever. But we understand and appreciate different perspectives and that each one of us shows dignity for the other. What's your take on that difference between dignity and respect?
Emily Dickens:
We talk about often here the dignity of work. And so I love how you're talking about this between dignity and respect. You use the term the bully, and I think people are so sensitive about some terms now in the workplace. That's one where it seems to be okay to go ahead and use it no matter what. What I would say is how people receive information is different. You label the person. Once you try to put a label on a person, do you know how hard it is for that person to escape that label?
I was talking to a colleague and he said, "The great thing about being able to go away to college is you leave your high school town and all the small-minded people and all the labels that you had in high school. And you can go 500 miles away and recreate yourself where no one knows who you were those four years of high school and people love you. And that one weekend where someone from your old community happens to be on that campus and tells everybody they knew you and they tell them about the old you, all of your hard work that you've done to make sure you can recreate and grow as a person is gone."
I think that there's incivility in that, in the fact that we continue to label people and treat them based on interactions that happened 2, 3, 4 years ago and label them this bully or this tyrant or whatever it is in the workplace. That gives them no dignity and no respect for the fact that humans constantly evolve and you don't know, you were never in that situation unless you were there about why that person is labeling them because you don't know what that person did to them. So I think it's important that we greet everyone based on our own interactions with them and let's stop labeling people in the workplace. And going back to my good friends in high school who will now be our workers of the future, how important it is to stop labeling people. You don't know that person's story.
And then the other piece, I taught you again about being a northerner, going to college and working in the south. And there are things and ways that we can say something as New Yorkers to each other and we have no problem. Everybody is good. You come to the south and you say it in that manner and you have just cut somebody like your tongue was a knife. People have to understand there are cultural differences as well and give grace. So the word I often talk about in this civility discussion is grace. And people are given dignity and given their dignity and respect back when you show them grace. Stop trying to hold them accountable for one or two experiences that you weren't even a part of nine times out of 10. This is a cyclical piece where it is dignity, respect, and the third thing I would say is grace. You need that because you weren't there and you need to understand that people evolve and that they have different cultural things that make them who they are and give some understanding of that because you would want them to understand that for you.
Carrie Fox:
Right. "We all are more than our worst thing."
Emily Dickens:
We are.
Carrie Fox:
There's another quote, Brian Stevenson.
Emily Dickens:
I'm writing that down.
Carrie Fox:
"We are all more than our worst thing." So what you're really talking about now is perception. And I love that you are because we make perceptions about one another and we make them quickly. And once we have them, they're hard to break. And so the other thing that civility does is it really challenges us to radically listen and to be in community with one another and to learn more beyond our first impression of one another because so much about our individual backgrounds and experiences means that every single one of us will show up with a certain kind of bias whether we want to or not. It's just based on our own experiences in life. But we learn so much more from each other when we can put those perceptions aside. So again, love what you do.
Emily Dickens:
I love that. And you said, I was thinking, I was like, "God, this is unconscious bias. It really is." And the immediate tool or tactic you can use starting there is to look for commonalities. Humans, when we meet each other... and because in working in policy, tons of DC receptions and events we have to go to, right? What's the first thing you do when you walk in a room with people you don't know? You look for commonalities.
I was in an event yesterday and a woman had read my background and she said, "I went to college in North Carolina too." And then I said to her, "Oh my God, was your president of that institution this person? Well, I got to work for you." So we found two connections, a commonality. And by the end of the time, a second boss of hers had been someone that my boss had worked with who was now back in DC who we were trying to reconnect with. So I thought about that experience this morning. It was so amazing because we led with a commonality and I can't tell you what she had on. I can tell you she had a cute blue dress on, but I can't tell you anything negative about her because we started that discussion with what we had in common and we were so open to one another. And if we start there instead of what the bias may be, I think that we can just really be more civil to one another by just starting with our commonality.
Carrie Fox:
I love that. How are we, Emily, almost done with this conversation? That went way too fast. So I would love us to go back to something that I'd really love you to share a little more about, which is this four-part action steps that employers can take to promote civility. And I'll prompt you there, maybe you can tell me a little more about those four steps. Or if there's something else that feels pressing on your mind, you can go there too.
Emily Dickens:
I'm going to say four-part action steps that companies can take, and I think also if I can also say companies and people managers, and let me say why if you don't mind.
Carrie Fox:
Yes.
Emily Dickens:
SHRM did some research back in 2019 on workplaces, and we learned about toxic workplaces. And we learned that the person... And we knew this, but it was really confirmed, that the person who impacts your experience at work the most is your people manager. So you could love your CEO and say they are the best person. But if you don't report to that person, he or she has no control really over your overall daily experience. And so we're talking a lot about what companies should do. But really let's whittle this down to what they should hold their people managers accountable for. And I think number one, as a lifelong learner, I'm going to say first is listen and learn.
Listen to your people. And be, you said this earlier, an extreme listener. And it's hard because we're all trying to get our point across, but you need to listen to what your people are saying. What are the things that keep coming up with them and how are they talking to one another? That's another piece. How are the other members of your team talking to one another and speaking to them? The next thing is you want to listen to understand and not to respond. So again, for our people managers and even for the business as a whole, you want to understand where this is coming from. There's a lot of employee activism right now. Why is that? And I can say because I'm in the public policy space a lot of these things are as a result of the fact that we're not getting the job done here in DC on Capitol Hill.
There are so many things that needed to be decided that haven't been decided. And now the states are deciding them on their own, making it even more complicated for HR professionals and others who've got to comply with it. But there's this sense that business has to solve the problems of everyone and business has leaned in aggressively, but it has put them on their hind legs now. They're on the defensive now when people think they're not leaning in enough. So you want to understand why that unhappiness or that incivility exists. And it could be that there is something they think the business should be doing for them that the business isn't doing for them. And here's one of those transparent discussions of saying, "It would be a nice to have, but that really isn't the role of business to do this. And here's what I do offer you and I need you to be okay with that."
Next, you want to spend time with people who see the world differently than you do. It is really important. Again, that policy, not politics for us here at SHRM, we talk about that is I need to spend time with people, and it doesn't matter what side of the aisle, who disagree on an issue that we are working on. So if you don't believe in recruiting people from certain untapped talent pools or you don't believe... I'll tell you this whole thing with arbitration and non-compete clauses, right? If you don't believe that we should be regulating them, I want to have a discussion with you because we want to go back and forth. And we did that. Gretchen Carlson, who you may know, was an advocate of these arbitration clauses, especially as it related to sexual harassment. And she had some federal legislation that was pending. SHRM had a lot of concerns about it. So she and I actually did a session at our inclusion conference where they heard both sides of the issue.
And one of the things I loved is afterwards everyone kept saying how the discussion was so civil. And when you've been a passionate advocate and lobbyist your entire life and a lawyer, so we're trained to litigate and be direct, the fact that these two women who are legally trained could have a great discussion where there were clear takeaways and outcomes for those in the audience was a good example. So it just is so important that we spend more time with people who are different from us and you'll learn so much about them. And so I'll also say to our people, managers and workplaces out there that SHRM has tons of tools and resources. SHRM.org/stability is where you will find other tools about how your workplace can do the things they need to do to be more civil.
And you got to do what works for you. We haven't said the C word a lot today, culture. But businesses have to decide what their culture is, be transparent about it with applicants as well as with existing employees because that is so important. Find tools that will help them perpetuate the culture that they think works for their business.
Carrie Fox:
Emily, that was brilliant. I want to go back and replay that a few times and that may end up being our show notes right there because you just mapped out so many clear action steps for folks to take on how they listen, how they practice disagreeing, and how leaders model disagreeing better because it serves then as a tool for others across the organization to learn and practice too. It shows your values in action that you are okay at disagreeing respectfully. I'm going to give you the very last word here because I know there are so many things going on at she. So if there's something that's on your mind or something that you would suggest folks go learn more about, I don't know if folks can go watch that interview that you had with Gretchen Carlson or there's something coming up, I'd love you to direct them someplace. Where can we go to keep this practice of civility going?
Emily Dickens:
If I can say two things, I'll say definitely go to SHRM.org/civility. It is constantly being updated with different resources. So that's number one. Number two, I'm sure we can probably find that Gretchen Carlson interview, but we have our inclusion conference, which is always third quarter, is always a great place to hear about different sides of an issue. And again, an example of how SHRM listened and learned. We listened closely and extremely. We changed the name of that conference five years ago from Diversity Conference to Inclusion. We heard our members, we heard employees saying that you can count every day, all day in terms of numbers and who's in the building. But are they feeling included? And that's where we saw the gap. And so again, for us, that was really good. And then I want to leave you with a word that I hope will permeate through everyone who's thinking about how they can be more civil in the workplace. Let's show some grace. It is to me a power word.
We don't do it enough. And I think it's important that you want people to show grace for you. But if you're an independent contributor and you've got a manager that is being pulled in all directions, how much grace have you shown them throughout this trying period of the last four years? And many of these people don't want to sit in those seats. We're seeing fewer people who want to ascend to management. So I want to make sure that they are showing grace for the business and the leaders who have to make critical decisions around that C-suite table every day because everything will always work for everyone. And then show grace for that person who is closest to you in determining your day-to-day experience in the organization.
Carrie Fox:
Emily, you've got to me. I think I'm getting a little teary-eyed here because I absolutely love that you just said grace is a power word. And I want to reinforce that to the audience. We talk a lot about how some of those power skills goes back to one of the norms, right? There are norms on what we think about power skills, in business, but that grace and empathy are some of the greatest power skills that leaders can have today.
Emily Dickens:
Absolutely.
Carrie Fox:
So thank you. Thank you for modeling that and for leading this work so wonderfully and for being our partner in this conversation today.
Emily Dickens:
Wow. Thank you for having us. It is an honor, and we're going to be talking about this for two years, so we hope to see you again.
Carrie Fox:
That sounds like a plan. Thanks so much, Emily.
Emily Dickens:
You're welcome.
Carrie Fox:
Did you know that most American workers experience incivility at work and one third of those workers believe it will only get worse? SHRM, the trusted authority on all things work believes that civility is a cornerstone of workplace culture that allows people and businesses to thrive. Now, just imagine a world of work that fosters respect across an exchange of ideas and opinions. SHRM is on a mission to empower us all to transform our workplaces, one conversation at a time, learn how and join them at SHRM.org.
That brings us to the end of another episode of Mission Forward. If you like what you heard today, I hope you'll stop right now and give this show a five-star rating wherever you are listening to this podcast. Maybe even forward it to a friend who you think would enjoy today's conversation. And of course, check out the show notes for all of the links referenced in today's show. Mission Forward is produced with the support and wisdom of Pete Wright and the true story production team, as well as the wonderful Sadie Lockhart of Mission Partners. You can learn more about our work over at Missionforward.us, and of course, reach out to me anytime at carrie@mission.partners. Thanks for tuning in today, friend, and I'll see you next time.
