Civility in Action with SHRM’s Tina Beaty
About This Episode
According to SHRM research, there are over 67 million acts of incivility happening at work every day. Our guest this week argues that the fabric of how we treat each other is starting to unravel - with serious consequences for employee mental health, productivity and company culture. But there’s hope: change can start with each of us, one interaction at a time.
Tina Beaty is Chief Brand and Marketing Officer for SHRM and this week, she sits down with Carrie to dive into SHRM's new civility index and campaign aimed at empowering managers and employees with the tools to handle uncivil behavior and engage in respectful dialogue, even on controversial topics. They explore how generational differences, polarizing political issues, and the stresses of the past few years are playing out at work.
Rather than waiting for elected officials or senior leaders to set the tone, Beaty encourages listeners to take ownership of their own conduct. "Every single interaction is a decision," she reminds us. With empathy, positive intent, and a commitment to open and honest communication, Beaty believes workplaces can become a model for the civil society we wish to see.
This is a discussion on the small choices that can make a big difference in transforming workplace culture. Disagree better, assume positive intent, and be the civility we seek - it may be the solution we need to create more productive, psychologically safe, and human-centered places of work.
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Carrie Fox:
Did you know that most American workers experience incivility at work? And one-third of those workers believe it will only get worse. SHRM, the trusted authority on all things work believes that civility is a cornerstone of workplace culture that allows people and businesses to thrive. Now, just imagine a world of work that fosters respect across an exchange of ideas and opinions. Well, SHRM is on a mission to empower us all to transform our workplaces one conversation at a time. Learn how and join them at SHRM.org. Breaking news.
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Breaking news.
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It's the year of the chatbot.
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The latest Setback for Climate Act.
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In the latest Supreme Court ruling. The court is set to redefine.
Carrie Fox:
Hi there and welcome to the Mission Forward podcast. I'm Carrie Fox, your host and CEO of Mission Partners, a social impact communications firm and certified B corporation. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. So in each of our lives, if we are lucky, we come across people who make an indelible impact on us, our work, our leadership style, and our life path. Today's guest is one of those for me. I have known Tina for many years before I became a mom, and some of my earliest years of growing my first company. And as a founding mother, as we call it, someone who was raising a business while raising children, and shout out to fellow B Corp leader [inaudible 00:01:39] for introducing me to that term.
I know firsthand how complicated it can be to find life harmony between work and family. And I've advocated with my B Corp friends and colleagues for policy changes that support parents' ability to thrive in the workplace. While Tina is advocating for the same, as a mom, a business executive, and a breakthrough communicator and advocate for parents in the workplace. Tina Beaty is chief brand and marketing officer for SHRM. She changes the way people think, feel, and believe, and she leads her team to consciously impact global behaviors. She's launched products, shaped public opinion, introduced consumer awareness campaigns, and now she works to shape the world of work. Why? Well, because as she says, most adults spend most of their waking hours at work and it should be an innovative, safe, and fulfilling place to be. Tina, that's a really long way of saying, it's great to see you, my friend, and thanks for being here.
Tina Beaty:
Oh, thank you for having me. It is wonderful to be here.
Carrie Fox:
So I am thrilled that you are among the season's feature leaders and the third in this amazing series we are doing in partnership with SHRM, tied to civility at work. And so today what we've got on tap, we're going to talk about the future of work. We're going to talk about strategies that support mental health, particularly during this Mental Health Awareness Month. And we're going to talk a little bit about why civility is SHRM's word of the year, and you've got some cool new information to share with us too. Before we get to that, lets kind of take a step back and tell folks who don't know you a little bit more about how you came to do this awesome work.
Tina Beaty:
I think some people take a while to figure out what their North Star is and what their kind of passion calling is. I stumbled upon it in high school. So first internship, wanted to really test the waters of what the world of communications and PR looked like and from high school into college kept doing internships to supplement my course study in the classroom. I had some amazing internships, had some real bad ones where I was like, that's not the type of communications that I want to do. But through that journey, always had this kind of undercurrent of telling stories for good, for driving behavior change that was going to help the world. Sometimes it might be through a product sale and sometimes it was through actual behavior change in society of something that a population was doing or not doing. And I've been really blessed in my career through different stops in-house and at agencies to be able to always work on that type of behavior change, of influencing how people think and feel the information that they're receiving so they can be more informed at work and in their daily lives.
It's how I ended up on your team Carrie, right? Couple years ago, we won't say how many, but that idea that there could be mission-driven stories was so amazing to me to find an agency that focused solely on that. And it was such a blessing to join C.Fox Communications at that point and build those stories, help those clients who had a vision and we could shape their narrative to bring it out to their populations. And so it's always been a privilege to partner with other storytellers, with clients, and now doing it in-house at SHRM with a team of amazing experts of storytellers across our brand and marketing teams. We are here to ensure that at some point, somehow we make workplaces better, more productive, more positive, because we firmly believe that that will be the cascading domino into making the world a better place.
Carrie Fox:
Well, this latest story that you're telling, and it's much more than that, but the campaign that you have launched is really meeting the world at a moment that it needs this work. So the work that you have launched, I'm going to have you tell folks a little more about it, but the civility campaign... You talked a little bit about behavior change a minute ago, and it's this behavior change that we need to see in workplaces. Because so many folks inside workplaces are acknowledging that there is incivility at work and we need to change that behavior to bring civility back in center and back in focus. So tell us a little bit about the campaign and why it matters so much to you.
Tina Beaty:
Well, let's anchor it with a picture, right? So in the research that we've done right now, there are 171 million, yes million acts of incivility every day. And about 67.5 million of those are happening at work. So that's more acts of incivility than there are even workers. So it is jarring, but the stats prove out why we are doing this. And so it's interesting. In 2018, SHRM started studying the impact of toxic workplaces. And we found that direct managers usually had the most positive or negative impact on an employee. And so we've been measuring that over the last few years and we've come to the realization that the lack of civility or the loss of civility in the workplace and in society is really coming to bubble up. And it's what you see when you turn on the news. It is what you hear when you're talking to business leaders, small business leaders, enterprise corporations, everyone is saying the same thing.
We've kind of lost our way. That fabric of our society, of how we treat each other is starting to unravel. The good news is the cloth is not completely unraveled. We can save ourselves and we can create change, and it can start with just individual moments. And it all comes down to how we as humans treat each other. So when we're at work, how do we engage with someone across the table or on a Zoom call or on a telephone call? How do we listen? How do we bring some level of empathy? How do we want to be in that conversation? Be an active listener and be positive. And so it's those little moments that we can catch ourselves and change how we show up, that will truly start to create change in the workplace. And it is now something that we can measure by the level of civility or the lack thereof right now.
Carrie Fox:
So there are so many things that are intersecting that I'm sure helped you see the importance of this moment. All reinforced, we are here at or during Mental Health Awareness Month and the impact that incivility in a workplace will have on one's mental health. That's one that I want us to talk about. But two, let's remind folks that you are representing SHRM, right? And so this really is an important, critically important conversation for managers and leaders to be having because the impact that you make on someone else's life, intraday has a big impact to how they feel and can experience their workplace, right? So I'd love you to tell us a little more about that, whether you want to talk about that direct connection between mental health and incivility or the important role that managers play, and maybe we'll get to both of them in time.
Tina Beaty:
There is absolutely a connection between the accident civility that we are now measuring in the SHRM civility index and how that translates to impact. It has a significant and direct impact on the mental health of individuals, of workers and of entire company cultures. So it's not just impacting one person, it is impacting us as individuals and as collective teams. And that is why it is so important to A, be able to measure civility so that we can progress towards change. Then recognize the impact that it does have on mental health so that we can be empowered to find the solutions to strengthen mental health at work, which we believe is directly connected to seeing an increase in civility.
Carrie Fox:
All right, wow. So that's pretty clear and telling. So I think it was two issues ago, Harvard Business Review, their cover story was about the role that managers need to play as first responders, right? That it is critically important that managers take mental health first aid, that they be prepared to see the signs and understand when they're seeing mental health play out in the workplace when someone needs support. And that managers can't be therapists, managers can't intervene, but managers can support employees in a workplace. And I'm curious how SHRM is guiding managers through this really heavy time, how they're supporting them in understanding their role in the workplace.
Tina Beaty:
It is a heavy role that they have, but it's also one of inspiration. This is an important role that people can hold onto to create that change. So it is heavy, but it also can be really empowering at the same time. We are seeing that managers do need to take mental health seriously of their employees. And we have to recognize there is no one indicator of good or bad mental health of an employee that different people, different personalities, and especially with five generations in the workplace. Each generation has a different definition and expectation of mental health in the workplace. And so managers need to account for all of that. That's a lot, but that's where HR becomes a people manager's partner. Because HR is ready and prepared. They have all of the resources from SHRM to deal with the individual needs of employees, understanding the differences that a boomer population, the graying of our workforce to our Gen X to Gen Z, and the different needs that they have and how to respond.
And then what actual tools can be utilized. What are free resources that any company can use, and what are some decisions that a company can make to put mental health into their employee benefits? And so that's a huge spectrum of decisions that needs to be made and HR can help facilitate and actually make those decisions so that managers know what is available to them within their company. If there is maybe a lack of resources at your individual company, SHRM does offer a wide variety of free and readily available resources on our website to help facilitate healthy mental health cultures at work. SHRM Foundation, which is our 501(c)(3) organization within SHRM, is solely dedicated to social good and the change. And so mental health is one of their major pillars and they have some great content that is available. And we offer all of that content because again, it's not just the idea that mental health should be supported.
We can measure this, we can quantify it. We know that only about 37% of workers believe that their manager can effectively address incivility when they witness it. And so that's a low percent, right? We need managers to be aware of how to handle not only mental health writ large, but specifically acts of incivility. So what to look for and then what to do. And you don't want to intensify a situation, you want to try to tamper it so there can be a positive outcome.
And so within our civility campaign that you mentioned, there are free conversation starter guides available. We offer them as a online and quite digital where you can actually plug people into a conversation and it will facilitate it or a little bit more old school, download prompts that you can just print out and use. But the idea is when a manager sees an active incivility within their team, it gives them the knowledge and actually the script to go in, defuse the situation, and then bring the parties to a table and say, we need to have an open, honest, and frank dialogue about the topic that just happened. And so that can be a little bit scary to do on your own, but by using these guides that have been validated by I/O psychologists and HR experts, it gives folks a roadmap on how to handle a situation.
Carrie Fox:
Yeah. And so much of this comes down to practice, right? You don't need to come at this saying, "All right, I got to be perfect," right? Because none of us are intended to be perfect. It's all about how you show that care and then understanding that empathy through the process. And I'll share with folks who are listening that a few weeks ago... And I wrote about this on finding the words in a blog called Civility at Work, that we used your cards to facilitate a conversation among our team to build that muscle, so that every single one of our employees would be ready should they find themselves in a situation like that with a client or a colleague or a friend inside or outside of work. And it was excellent. So I reinforce for folks who are listening to go download that, we'll share a link to that in the chat.
I also want to link back to this data point you just shared, which like, wow, the world of work is so much bigger than I think folks often think about. Five generations in the workplace. And it's funny, I hear this comment on a pretty regular basis of folks who will say, "I just don't get how young people think today." Or someone who will say, "Look, I'm just starting out and I don't get how that most experienced leader connects. I don't know how to connect with them." And so we have this natural experience in our workplace today because the world of work is so much wider, that folks do feel like they have a harder time connecting with one another. And at its heart, Tina, it feels like that's what you're reminding people what to do and how to do, to simply connect across divides, whether that's an age divide or an issue divide. Is that how you all see it too?
Tina Beaty:
Yeah, absolutely. And we don't mean to minimize it, but it is that reminder that this is not as maybe big of a divide as we think. And the common denominator is that we're all dealing with something and we're all perceiving that there is others around us. People who may be look different than us, talk different than us or different ages or different backgrounds, but that's great. That's a common denominator right there. And so we have to find ways to just simply start with the conversation. So much of the tension in the workplace, the toxicity that we're measuring in the workplace can immediately be reduced if people are just willing to sit down and talk about it. Not let it fester, not let it be that you talk about it behind someone's back, but just have an open, safe conversation where the rules are, everyone gets to talk and everyone gets to listen.
And it doesn't mean that you're going to walk away from that table and everyone agrees. Especially if the topic is something quite significant. We're talking about race conversations, we're talking about political conversations, we're talking about topics like abortion and religion, deeply held beliefs. So the idea of a civil conversation is not to get the other party to change their mind, but it is to share the different viewpoints so that we can all start to understand where that other person is coming from.
And again, you're not going to change anyone's mind, and it's okay to disagree, but it's to disagree in a civil way. And to walk away thinking, I don't agree with what they think, but I understand a little bit more about them. And at the end of the day, they're just like me. They're a person trying to go through the workday. And so we can disagree on that topic, but we can also quickly pivot, jump into a work project and have a really positive working relationship. And so that is kind of the end goal here that we truly believe starts with just being willing to talk to each other in a civil way, of course.
Carrie Fox:
Right, right. So a lot of the issues that you addressed are so front and center right now. We are in a US election year, but elections happening all over the world. And so some of these issues you addressed are being taken on at the highest levels of our government. And we see in civility on national stages, right? We see it playing out in our elected leaders. And so some of that then gets translated into the work environment. We carry forward what we're seeing. And it comes back again to this importance and role of managers to reset the norm, right? Don't lean into what you see happening. There can be a better way. There can be another way. I'm curious if you feel like... And I suspect it is because of the data, that in civil acts are rising, they're increasing, and is that tied to this election year or is it not? Is there something that is fueling the incivility?
Tina Beaty:
We are seeing an increase, and that's why we've issued the index now so that we can continue to measure it quarter over quarter, especially as we get closer to the US election and then just post-election. But is it causation correlation because of the election or is it just because of the environment that we've been in for the last couple of years, right? I think we have to give ourselves some credit. It's been a tough couple of years between the pandemic and market changes and things like that. But at the end of the day, now is the time to pause and reset. We can gain control of this. It is not just that the world is happening around us. We every single day make a choice of how we wake up, of how we show up, of how we talk to our significant others, to our kids, to our coworkers and our bosses, our teams, everyone.
Every single interaction is a decision. And even if you had maybe an icky morning and you didn't handle yourself quite right, that's okay. Because reset and you can have civil conversations in the afternoon. It is as fast as that. Is it? Totally agree. We are sponges, right? So we're soaking up what we see, especially on mainstream TV and things like that. But there are those leaders out there that I think are pausing with us and recognizing now is that moment for change. And to bring in more civility, SHRM CEO Johnny C. Taylor, Jr. was recently on stage with Governor Cox who has kind of started this passion point around disagree better.
And what a beautiful statement because again, it is that idea that we're not looking for everyone to agree. We are just saying have that conversation and disagree a little bit better or a little bit nicer than you used to. So I'm really quite encouraged that we're starting to see some of our elected officials and others on those main stages embracing this idea of civility. And we just hope that there will be more of that. But this could also be a push from the bottom up. All of us can be civil, we can be the people we want to be. We can create those communities, right? Can we make the PTA meeting a little bit less intense, right? Let's listen to each other. And that might become the model then for other meetings, for other engagements, and maybe it'll bubble up to the top.
Carrie Fox:
So that was great because you reinforced the title of this episode, as I noted at the top. This is a three-part episode with SHRM. The first one with Jim Link was Civility in Focus. Then we talked to Emily and had this wonderful conversation about Civility in Practice. And today we're talking about Civility in Action. And I keep hearing you say, you don't have to wait. You don't have to sit back. You don't have to wait for somebody else to solve it. It's as simple as waking up in the morning and committing to show that civility throughout your day. Inviting people into conversations, checking in on them along the way. Clear is kind, as Brené Brown says, right? Being a human. I mean, maybe that's just what it comes down to is understanding that we're all going through things and most of the day we won't know what the person next to us is going through. The best we can do is to be our best for them, right? Is to support one another through whatever journey we're all on.
Tina Beaty:
Yeah, have positive intent in your statements and assume positive intent for those that you're engaging with. Because yeah, humans have a lot going on. They have baggage, they had a crazy morning. All of that is how we show up at work every day. And when we recognize that, again, it becomes that common denominator. Something that we can at least all agree on is that we are all people bringing something to the table. And so it might be a passionate viewpoint on a very polarizing topic, or it might just be a different viewpoint on how to start a project at work, but those viewpoints can all be heard if we all start from that ground of you're just like me, right? Yeah, we have a lot of differences, but we also have a lot of similarities. And so focusing on the fact that there are similarities and maybe just assuming that they are and then engaging in a vocal conversation, I think people will start to feel different at work, truly feel different if they just start their day that way.
Carrie Fox:
Right. You're really making me realize something through this, which is if I think back to my earliest years in the world of work and how different it was and how many topics were, ooh, don't talk about that, right? There was a time when it felt strange to be in a meeting to have someone talking about their children, right? Which now we've gotten past that, right? We bring ourselves as families and parents to the workplace, and there is value in talking about who we are in the workplace too. And so some folks who might be listening are thinking, well, these are topics that are not going to come up in my workplace. But the reality is they may, right? Because the deeper we get into work, and if we think about wanting to address some of the issues that are facing our nation right now, you've got to touch on some of those topics.
And so the likelihood that you will find yourself in a conversation like this is probably just more likely than it was in the past. And so I love this framework, Tina, you've created, which is you may show up at work and find yourself in a conversation you didn't expect to be in. One, to show civility in that and to model it across a conversation. But two, just to kind of care for others and recognize that people show up in a lot of different places in a conversation and with different viewpoints and just coming back to caring for one another.
Tina Beaty:
Yeah, absolutely. And yes, I agree with you. It is more likely that you will be in these situations, these conversations. And we also recognize that different companies are purposefully creating different cultures. And so I think this is a really empowering option that folks have as well, because some employees and some corporate cultures are going to fully embrace the idea of open conversation on all topics. And that's great if that matches your personal ethos. And there's other companies who create cultures where they say, "We're going to stay a little bit more focused on our work and less about external conversations. Those can be had outside the workplace." And that's okay because that's an authentic culture for what they're building. And so employees get to choose, does that match my ethos or do I need to find another company? And so there is a matchmaking to be had here, right? Because not every person wants to be in the same level of conversation, and not every company is going to create an environment for that.
And that's okay. It's about making sure that each employee finds the right company and each company finds the right employee so that their cultures are a match with the personal ethos. And then you can thrive. But if you do find yourself at a company at the moment where it isn't maybe a direct connection with your personal ethos, that's where then harnessing civility becomes even more important because you need to maybe walk away from certain conversations and that's okay. But as long as you did it respectfully and civilly to the other person, until you're able to make a more permanent change, then it's those moments of civility that still is a little bit of the silver bullet.
Carrie Fox:
All right, we are coming to the end here. So my last question for you is a little bit of an open-ended one, which is what do you want to leave us with? You have given us so much to think about and so much to do right in that spirit of civility, in action, what's your last word as you think about where you want to send people from here?
Tina Beaty:
I'm really quite excited that it is possible that positive change through civil conversations is possible and it will work. And it's not just me saying that, right? Going back to the research, I think about two thirds of US workers strongly agree that incivility reduces productivity. Which means they know if we are civil, we will be more productive and positive at work. And at least for me, when I'm winning at work, I come home a happier mom and a wife, and I'm able to then communicate positively and contribute to my community. So you take your work home and you take you to work. So at the end of the day, I know that these small changes in having civil conversations, just chatting with each other in a positive state of mind will create change. I think our souls will feel better, and I know that we can measure productive change at work. So it's a little bit of a win-win if we're all just willing bit of attention to our tone and how we show up and embrace civility in our conversations.
Carrie Fox:
That's great. Well, Tina, thank you. Thanks for championing this work and for being such a model for this in your company, but also just generally in your work. This was a great conversation. You've given us all a lot to think about and to do coming out today, and we will make sure that we link right over to SHRM and the civility campaign so folks can get involved. Thanks again.
Tina Beaty:
Well, thank you Carrie, for having me.
Carrie Fox:
Did you know that most American workers experience incivility at work? And one third of those workers believe it will only get worse? SHRM, the trusted authority on all things work believes that civility is a cornerstone of workplace culture that allows people and businesses to thrive. Now, just imagine a world of work that fosters respect across an exchange of ideas and opinions, while SHRM is on a mission to empower us all to transform our workplaces one conversation at a time. Learn how and join them at SHRM.org. And that brings us to the end of another episode of Mission Forward.
If you like what you heard today, I hope you'll stop right now and give this show a five-star rating wherever you are listening to this podcast. Maybe even forward it to a friend who you think would enjoy today's conversation. And of course, check out the show notes for all of the links referenced in today's show. Mission Forward is produced with the support and wisdom of Pete Wright and the true story production team, as well as the wonderful Sadie Lockhart of Mission Partners. You can learn more about our work over at missionforward.us, and of course, reach out to me anytime at carrie@mission.partners. Thanks for tuning in today, friend, and I'll see you next time.
