How to Restore Our Belief in One Another with Rich Harwood
About This Episode
Here’s what we know about political violence in America: it’s getting worse. Here’s what we think we know about why: polarization, social media, extreme rhetoric. But what if we’re looking at this all wrong?
Rich Harwood has spent the last 30 years in the places many of us have written off—communities fractured by poverty, loss, and division. What he’s found in those places challenges our assumptions about where progress begins. It’s not happening in Washington. It’s not playing out on cable news. It’s emerging, quietly but powerfully, through a reawakening of what Harwood calls civic culture—the often-invisible fabric of how we live together, trust each other, and shape the future we want.
Rather than simply addressing polarization as a political problem, Harwood argues we’re living through something deeper: a crisis of belonging. His book, The New Civic Path, maps out a way to reverse that trend—not by starting with grand unifying movements, but by starting small, building momentum, and restoring belief in what’s possible together.
In this conversation—recorded just a day after a harrowing act of political violence—Harwood offers a rare kind of clarity. Not a feel-good story, but a practical invitation to shift how we work, lead, and rebuild. For anyone seeking a way forward in a time of fracture, this episode offers something even more vital than answers: it offers a way to begin.
Links and Notes
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'Carrie Fox
Hi, and thanks for joining us for this episode of the Mission Forward Podcast. As you know, this season we are taking on hellos and goodbyes and the space between. And this show was designed to be about that space between, when we focus on being present with our community and what it takes to build strong fabric in community to weather headwinds. and to reduce the likelihood of hate and division and even simple misunderstanding happening in the first place. And then, twenty-four hours before we were about to record this show Americans witnessed another brazen attack of political violence. A prominent public figure, speaking publicly on a campus in front of thousands of college students. He was killed before the audience's eyes. And so here we are, back to this place again. As I read the news yesterday, so many news outlets. From Reuters, AP, the Washington Post, each one had a way of describing this event, not as an isolated event, but as part of a new dark normal. One that signals an escalation of political violence that many experts have been warning us about, with rising incidents targeting public figures, with threats amplified on social media. with increasing rhetoric, a shrinking middle ground. Where in the world do we go from here? Well our guest today wrote a path that might give us a clue into how to answer such a question. Rich Harwood is the founder and president of the Harwood Institute for Public Innovation. For more than 30 years, he has helped people and communities bridge divides, rebuild trust, and chart a more hopeful civic path forward. Rich's most recent book, The New Civic Path, Restoring Our Belief in One Another and Our Nation, offers a roadmap for confronting the brokenness of our politics and renewing civic life from the ground up. So that's what we're here to explore today. You will not want to miss a moment of this conversation. Rich, welcome to the show.
Rich Harwood
Carrie, it's so good to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Carrie Fox
We are gonna get to hope because that's where I know you live and it's where I like to live too. But we are maybe not gonna start there. We're gonna start with the harsh reality of the moment. we're in, right? So in a moment where it is hard to find the words on what to say and how to express how we're feeling, I'm going to ask you to help us do that. Because I I suspect there's not many people better than you to help answer that question. question as someone who has literally written the book on how to restore a belief in one another. What does this moment demand of us, right? How are you how are you processing what moment we are in?
Rich Harwood
I think we're in a moment where there's a lot of noise and confusion. There's a sense of uncertainty. We have replaced a sense of decency at times with cruelty and capricious acts. We have replaced humility, which I think is critical right now with hubris incertitude. We have made politics a compact a combat uh a contact sport in a sense. And um And yet, Carrie, there so I am going to start with hope, um, in a sense, because as bad as things are. as confusing as they are, as fearful as people are in the country, as exhausted as we all are, myself included. There is still so much goodness in this country. When I work in communities all across America, what I find are folks who want to come together and create a new path forward. What I find are so many good things that people are creating together. And We have become obsessed with this politics of division when I think there is a deep yearning within most of us. To take a different path forward. The question for us is will we step forward and take this new path together? I happen to believe as human beings. as members of community of part of a country, we are meant to go together. We're not meant to be isolated beings. And so the question is, will we step forward? Will we make the active choice? Will we show up for one another? and build the kind of community and kind of country that I think so many Americans aspired to help create.
Carrie Fox
It's fascinating because as you talk, I'm brought back to those early days post nine eleven. and how the country came together in those days and how we have seen so many times over these 20 plus years people coming together. How do you hope people do come together? What are what are you seeing in how people are coming together?
Rich Harwood
Well, if I can just talk first about nine eleven. I lost my college roommate in the North Tower. I saw it happen. on television when the plane ran into his building and he was in it. And you know, after nine eleven There were so many people who put decals on their cars, who went to ball games and sang hymns. We were told to go shopping. And We thought that there would be the public will to build a better country, but we forfeited that opportunity through shallow acts. And you know, after each I was called into Newtown to work with the community after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It was the same thing. You know, over and over again in this country, we we grieve for a moment and then we want to sweep our grief under the rug and move forward and pretend nothing ever happened except to to commemorate these things, but then to move on yet again. And I think what's missing, what we need Actually, the way I'd like to talk about it, the opportunity that we have as Americans, as fellow human beings, is that we need to focus not just on programs and strategies and initiatives as important as those things surely are, and my institute has all those things. But What I find is the biggest predictor of whether or not we can move forward together, whether or not we can build something together, whether or not we can be co-producers in our communities and in our lives and in this country is the health of our very civic culture. And that takes hard work. There is a way to create it. And I think that's where we need to be focused today. If we want Real change if we want to address what I hope we'll get to as the underlying issues that I think exist uh beneath Charlie Kirk's uh senseless murder. Tragic murder. If we want to ensure that we deal with the inequities and disparities in this country, that everyone has a place, that dignity is upheld, then I know no other way than to focus on our civic culture and rebuild it because it's the enabling environment that allows us to come together and get stuff done.
Carrie Fox
Well, can we just go right there? Because we're all ears. What does it look like to focus on our civic culture?
Rich Harwood
Well, it means, you know, we've as an organization, we've over 40 years now Um, you know, I didn't start with this idea. This is something that I learned over time and bumped into really, honestly, Carrie. Uh is what I discovered is that uh through research and then practical on-the-ground work is that um there are nine factors that make up civic culture that are instrumental. We can actually create them. And we can create them while we're doing the work that we need to do to that focuses on what matters to people. And so some of the factors include that You know, we need seed beds of social gathering places because there they help us create trust. We need organized spaces for interaction in our communities. We need uh leaders at different layers of our communities, but they need certain qualities in order to hold our trust. We need catalytic organizations. We have tons of service organizations. We don't have nearly enough catalytic organizations that are boundary spanning, that make it their mission to bring people together across dividing lines, to help incubate ideas and don't hold on to them, but spin them off for others to take and run with. We need a different set of norms in our communities around a whole lot of things. You know, the narratives that we have, I know this is really important probably to your work, but the narratives that we have. uh the ingrained narratives that you know we find are is the greatest hidden factor to whether that communities move forward, right? The because they shape our mindset and our attitudes and our behaviors, our sense of possibility. And Right now in America, we pass along ingrained negative narratives to one another. And the question is, what does it take to create positive can-do narratives that are authentic? and not simply hyped up. And so there are nine of these factors. We've been working with communities and and in some of the hardest hit places, they've regenerated their civic culture and in the process created transformational systemic change on a whole lot of things that matter to people like education. I'm not asking people to not do strategies. I'm not asking them to not worry about programs or initiatives. What I am saying is If you want to have the impact in those things that you really care about, if you really want to be effective, if you really believe that We have an obligation to be stewards of the funding that is invested in our efforts, which I know a lot of your listeners are concerned about. then we sure as hell better focus on civic culture if we want to get the results we want. And last point, you know, you've mentioned hope a couple of times. You know, I'm not simply interested in impact. I at the core of this, the reason why I do this is because I want people to believe that tomorrow can be better than today for them. Or in other words, of saying that is that They have a belief that things can get better. They have a sense of authentic hope. And I think that's the currency of life. That's the currency of community. That's the currency of being a human being. We all want hope, regardless of where we start in the journey. And right now, we're real good at creating false hope. We're not nearly as good as we need to be at creating authentic hope.
Carrie Fox
I love that phrasing that you use in the book, authentic hope versus false hope. And as you were just speaking, um I I shared a post with um some of my colleagues today. of the beautiful sky. And I said on the on a day like this when we all feel a little off balance, it helps to look up. It helps to remember that the sun rose yesterday and the sun will rise tomorrow too. And one step in front of the other. We can keep navigating through this together.
Rich Harwood
Joy will come in the morning, right? That's what that's what we're taught.
Carrie Fox
Right. But together is such an essential part of that because the isolation that we are facing at many leaders tell me that in these moments of great crisis they feel more alone than ever. And so that togetherness really matters. So let's pick up on the civic culture that you were just talking about. And I'll I'll make a link back to something else that I just read. I want to get your take on. So y I'm I'm sure you're probably familiar with Anand Herodidas and his work and he had a piece, an essay reflecting on this most recent political attack. And he talked about, here's what he said, what America is living through is not just disagreement, division, polarization. It is above all swelling civic contempt. And that was such an interesting phrase, right? Disagreement, division, polarization, they're in the territory of I think this way, you think that way. But civic contempt is different. It brings in attitudes of dismissal and it imagines that it's not worth doing anything about the time we're in. Whereas your your frame requires just the opposite.
Rich Harwood
Yeah, well both can coexist, but um yeah, I happen to think that the challenge we face, people keep wanting to frame this as political polarization. First of all, I think there's something else going on. I think there's fight or flight going on, which I think is different than polarization. That said Um I actually think the dilemma is cultural and human. We lack a sense of belonging. We don't feel part of something larger than ourselves. There's mis fundamental mistrust. There's an epidemic of loneliness when we're more connected today than at any other point in civilization. uh there is a lack of belief that we have any agency in our lives. This goes way beyond politics. This goes way beyond um our discourse. This is this is fundamental to who we are as a people and who we seek to become and what the path is to manifest our deepest aspirations about what we can create together. And that's why I think this new civic path is so important. It's why I wrote the book, because I don't think we simply need to fix politics. I think that's a symptom of something larger. I think we need to get on a civic path that begins in our local communities because it's their carry, as you know well. That we can turn outward toward one another and see and hear one another, uphold each other's dignity and understand what's in front of us. It's where amid our real differences, We can figure out what we can agree on. We're so practiced at saying what we're against. Except I think so many of us as human beings really want to talk about what we're for. But there's no opportunity. So I think we need to do that. And I think it needs to be outside of political agenda and more focused on what matters to us in our daily lives. There, I think there is an emerging new American agenda, which perhaps we could talk about. I think in addition, you know, we're not going to talk our way out of this. And I fear that there are too many people in my field who simply want to hold forums. And, you know, God bless them. I'm not coming. Um, not endless forums, because I think we need to get in motion and we need to build together. It's by building together that we We rediscover that we can make a difference, that we have individual and shared agency, that you and I and others have talents that we've for somehow forgotten about. It's if we have amnesia. um that we begin to recognize our shared humanity. And then last thing on this new civic path is, you know, so much of the change, this goes back to the leaders who are so tired and exhausted that you were just talking about. In my work, what I find over and over again is that the change that we are creating is invisible to us. We're so hunkered down. We're so busy doing the work. We're so exhausted by it. We're we're fighting with our own allies half the time. that we and we're told by funders that we're only allowed to talk about our results at the end when we fit all the metrics. I don't know any journey in life that actually ends. Any journey worthwhile that actually ends. And the context in which we work is continually changing. So the question for me is, how can we look up and make visible what is now invisible to us? Of the progress we're making along the way, not simply because we want to celebrate as important as that is, but because it connects us back to our mission. It gives us a sense of possibility and hope. It actually when we spread these stories to others and they're real, the good, the bad, and the ugly, they engender belief Much like a really good parable, like the Good Samaritan parable, we begin to see ourselves in these stories, and they implicate us in doing so. And we begin to see that we could be one of these actors. And it gives us a sense of belief that while we can't solve everything, we can make a difference and make a dent. And so that's why I think this new civic path is so important. It it restores our sense of connection, it restores our sense of belonging, it gives us a sense of agency, it uplifts our spirit. It tells us, yes, tomorrow by tomorrow, there may be joy in the morning, but we're not creating all the change we want by the morning. But There can be joy. We can take a step forward. We can make a difference. We can go together.
Carrie Fox
One of the folks that I've had on the show and who I have really come to admire and lean on in these times is Dr. John Paul Letterac. Who's a peace builder and what you just shared is a bit of how he talks about spider networks, this idea of weaving people together and and um thinking about the community you exist in and just think one step out and one step out and one step out until you really started to connect an entire community versus thinking I'm on one end let me go try to connect with the person on the farthest possible other end and see if we can connect because it probably won't work very well. But if you start to kind of work at the middle and work your way out, you actually will bring a community together. And it sounds like that's a lot of the work you've been doing. It's how do you pull communities together and and weave communities. together and build those deeper bonds.
Rich Harwood
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we have a we have four mantras in our work, one of which is start small to go big. And the idea is that when we've looked at all the change that people have created using our approach, It always started with a small, look, I want systemic change, right? I want big change. But it always started with a small action that helped to catalyze and unleash a chain reaction of actions and ripple effects that grew over time. And in growing over time, the approach, this approach that we call turning outward, not only took root and grew and spread in that chain reaction, but then it jumped to other networks, adjacent networks. And that as it jumped you have this what John Paul would call this spider network effect, or I think that's the phrase you use. And um And what we find in our work, like in Reading, Pennsylvania, where we've been working, is the approach, this mindset and set of practices that we teach people spreads like a positive contagion. It's not pushed on the community, it's pulled in by the community because people see that it works. It changes how we Do things together. And by the very process of engaging in the work, it engenders belief and hope. Not it doesn't solve all the problems. That's a false promise. It engenders belief and hope that we can keep going and keep making a dent and do it together. And that's what I find people want more than anything right now.
Carrie Fox
I want to go back to a comment you made a few moments ago about one of the things we need in terms of um the the different elements that you were speaking about and you said there's not enough people doing this work, I think is the The way you talked about it. There's not enough organizations who are bringing people together and bridging. Why not? I mean, it feels like we need that so badly. Is it that there's not enough funding for it? Is it that there's not enough people trained on it? Why not?
Rich Harwood
I think it's a combination of things. I was just in Ohio talking to some organizations about this, and one of the leaders I was speaking with who's nationally known I think she's like fantastic. I I really admire what she does. But you know, in a moment of quietude, she turned to him and said, you know, Rich, Because of what's happening, because of the tone of our society, um my funders, she's a heads a nonprofit, my funders. Are fearful of us stepping out too much. They don't want to be associated with certain things. They're afraid to support certain kinds of change. They don't want us to do anything that's too messy. Um and my partners are afraid to step forward because they're afraid of losing their funding and what people might say about what they're doing. And so all of a sudden You've got this condition where everyone's hunkered down and which turns into kind of like a prisoner's dilemma. Like, will I, if I step forward, will you come with me? Which is required if we're going to go together. So I think that's one thing. I think there are lots of other things that you know I and yourself and others have written about, about the overprofessionalization of organizations. the the distorting effects that metrics have on can have on organizations, the ways in which funders come in for one or two, maybe three years. and then go off to some new fad. I've been doing this work for almost 40 years. I have a list of over 15 or 18 fads that I've had to weather during this work. um which you know are hard is hard to do. So I think there are a number of things here. But I always like to turn to, so what can we do? And to me, what we can do and what I said to this leader in Ohio is, look, you don't need to take on the world, and you ought not to. You need to think about what is your mission call you to do. You need to think about how much risk can your organization tolerate. You need to think about how much risk as an individual leader can you tolerate. Just within your body and within your psychology, can you tolerate? And then when you think about those things, figure out what you can do. Figure out how you can step forward. Figure out not how you're gonna bring everyone around the table. That's a kiss of death anyway. Figure out who's ready to roll. And just go with them right now. But always keep the door open to others and keep reaching back and circling back and engaging others. And what I know from my work now is that eventually As a funder in Reading, Pennsylvania said to me, um, who didn't want to fund the initiative initially, three years later, I said, so what do you think? She said, It worked. And I said, well, why do you think it worked? She said, because people love success. They want to be part of something that makes a difference. This is making a difference. But it took three years for all these people to come and join the effort over time. And so, you know, in my faith, like a lot of faiths, there's a teaching, if you save one life, you save the world. And I often think about, well, why do they teach us that? It's not true. But I think they teach it to us because it means that if you save one life, you've made a declaration that others matter. That if you save one life, you've stepped forward. That if you save one life, you see and hear others. That if you save one life, you've made a down payment. That if you save one life, you value the universality of life and of people and of humanity. And so what I say to folks like the folk the person in Ohio is just save one life. That's all you got to do. Then you'll figure out the next step.
Carrie Fox
I'm gonna go back to this book. We only have a couple minutes left And so one of the themes I hear so loudly in what you write and in what you say is having a path forward matters, believing in a path forward matters. going it together matters when you have seen uh organizations take up this path and move it forward, right? I imagine it's not just an organizational leader who says, all right, let's implement this. Let's do it inside our own little organization and let's go with it. But there are people coming together, building partnerships across different parts of a community. Uh give us maybe an example of how you see a community putting a new civic path into practice.
Rich Harwood
I'll just go back to Reading, Pennsylvania. When we started working there, they had been declared the poorest community in America ten years previous. They were once predominantly all white. They are now 70% Latino. The community has a high level of poverty. There are a lot of folks who don't speak English as their native language if they speak it at all. The community is very divided by neighborhood because people come from a lot of different countries. Um there's there was a lack of shared purpose and there were what I would call negative norms of interaction and working together. We worked with the community at the height of the culture war on education, you know, critical race theory, DEI, school board recalls. uh book banning and everyone said you'll never be able to work on education, particularly educational equity at this point. And yet the community did come together and create a community led community driven education agenda that never once focused on culture wars but focused on things that matter to people like English as a second language, after school activities. early childhood education, having teachers who look like the community, and so forth. There were nine points. Then people said, well you'll never be able to create any action. And we said, well, let's see what happens. And so people came out. and wanted to work together and they decided to work in three areas of those nine areas. And lo and behold, they created They began to create these chain reactions around English as a second language, which created systemic transformational change, which I write about in the book. We have a separate report on our website just about writing. And so because we don't have much time, what I would say is they did get on a new civic path. And not only that, you know, we tend to spend two to three years When we do deep community work like that, we do a lot of other things, but we tend to spend three years with the community. Our part of it ended uh about six or eight months ago. You know, this work has taken off with greater momentum, with greater depth than when we were working with them, and that's always the case. Because if you focus on civic culture combined with what matters to people, you're both making progress and creating proof along the way. You're able to send signals to people that change is occurring. you're creating an upward sloping curve that has increasing momentum, not diminishing momentum, and more and more people want to join. And now you have an enabling environment that can support the change. that keeps growing. And the good folks are writing. I love you know, I'm going back up there in a few weeks. because they inspire me so much. Because in so many of the communities I work in, people have been written off. We've been told that that because their education levels aren't high, or because they don't speak English as a native language, or because they're poor, that somehow they don't have the capabilities, they don't have they need talent. to create that they don't have aspirations to create a better life for themselves and their families, their neighborhoods, their communities, and all of it All of it is false, and it's dangerously false. It typecasts people, it stereotypes people, it creates preconceived notions about people. it sentences people to a lack of hope and possibility for their own futures. And so when I work with folks like in Reading or in Jackson, Mississippi, or in some Alabama which I just got back from or Northern California where there are militia running around. These places are just remarkable and the people are remarkable. And it's why your point about civic contempt, yes, that does exist. But let us not forget and let us remind ourselves. that amid the despair and the contempt and the silliness of our politics and our civic life, that beneath that and hidden from us is a goodness. It's a deep goodness that we simply have to see again and tap into and harness our collective energy to move forward. And it's possible. It's not a utopian vision. I don't have time for utopian visions. It's a practical way forward that people want to take together.
Carrie Fox
But you are very good at what you do. You are very good at bringing people along. Even when I came into this conversation thinking Is really the civic path going to be what we need? Well, you you paint a very clear vision that it is. I also appreciate there's a lot of the work I do is reminding people about the limiting factors of the story that we tell and not to be held back by the limiting factors, particularly if you are a nonprofit who is presenting what you do, that not to limit the the value and the innate talent that is in that community to begin with. So I I really appreciate the way that you just talked about those stories. We've got time for one more question. And uh as someone who loves words and wrote a book called More Than Words. I love the phrase you use called enough is enough because uh I love the many meanings of it, right? Enough is enough. We've said it many times. We say it every time there is an act of a little political violence or a mass shooting, enough is enough, we won't do this again. But then you also turn that phrase and you say, enough is enough. So talk to me a little bit about that phrase.
Rich Harwood
Well I think yeah, it it's partly an expression uh I love words too. It's it's partly an expression of, you know, I've had enough. Like let's stop. So it's a it's a declaration of intent Let's stop. We need to stop. Um enough also is I don't have enough. We don't have enough. And, you know, in in as you know, part of how I use the word is to say enough time to build. So it's we've had enough We need more and we're gonna have to come together and build together. And And then the other part is, you know, I'm Jewish, so in at Passover there's a song, Dayenu, Enough. It would have been enough. It would have been enough if God did this or if God did that. And, you know. Whether in my faith or in our community work, I don't think people, while they want all W we all want education to be better for everyone, but everyone knows given our current conditions and it took us a generation or two or more to get to the place we are, let's say, with education. That we're not going to turn around schools by tomorrow. We're not going to create this transformational change because we've got a three-year grant from some foundation. It's like, let's stop that. Enough of that. And Dainu, it would be enough if we made some progress. And the progress was real and it was tangible. And I could see it and I could believe in it. And it would propel me to go the next step with others, or it would propel me to hand off the baton to someone else because it's their turn now and I have enough humility to realize I'm not going on the whole journey. And that's um a different mindset. It's it's kind of like an abundance mindset, but but I think of it as Honestly, Carrie, I think of it as let's get real with ourselves. Like if you really care about kids, if you really care about the environment. If you really not the environment, if you care about people in Flint having safe drinking water where I did work, if you care about the twenty kids who are gunned down in Newtown, Connecticut where I did work, if you care about some Alabama which I just got back from, which people visit to walk over the bridge but don't invest in the community? Then let's get real, let's get some stuff done, and let's give people some real hope to live by.
Carrie Fox
Enough. Well, let's stop there because we have to get out and do some work. And I am going to be just in such appreciation, Rich, for m for many, many days. This will stick with me particularly in this moment because I came into this conversation feeling at a loss and I am leaving this conversation feeling renewed direction and hope and an understanding of the power of civic engagement and the specific work that you have done that has made such an impact in so many communities. So so thank you for kind of giving new perspective and new focus and sharing your wisdom with us today here on Mission Forward.
Rich Harwood
Thank you so much for having me.
Carrie Fox
And that brings us to the end of another episode of the Mission Forward Podcast. There is so much in that conversation that I am sitting with. And the words that I wrote down that I'll repeat right now, tomorrow can be better. We can believe that. We don't have to believe the limiting stories about where we are, what's holding us back, and what our future can look like. Because there is a new civic path as Riz Rich Hardwood Because there is a new civic path as Rich Hardwood shared with us today that gives us direction and focus and honestly what we need to be able to move forward. to restore our belief in one another and our nation. So Rich Harwood, thank you for your time and insights today. And for all of you, wherever you are and wherever you're going, may it be a mission forward.
