How to Build Community by Design with Anne Kerns
About This Episode
It starts with a handful of seeds.
When Mission Partners’ design director Anne Kerns shows up at a civic rally with paper packets filled with flowers, herbs, and vegetables, she’s there to share. To spark a conversation. To see what happens when you hand a stranger something living. That image—Anne with her seeds—is at the heart of this week’s conversation. Because design, as she tells Carrie Fox, isn’t only what you make; it’s what you grow. It’s an act of attention, of cultivating curiosity in yourself and in others.
From the geometry of a Frank Lloyd Wright logo at Wingspread to the exacting hues of red that pulse with both passion and danger, Anne reveals the hidden life inside design decisions most of us overlook. Every line has intention. Every color has memory. Every choice says something about who we are and what we value.
Together, Carrie and Anne trace the invisible thread between creativity and community: how a refreshed logo can honor history without erasing it, how accessibility transforms good design into inclusive communication, how technology—from PageMaker 1.0 to AI—tests our understanding of what it means to create with soul.
In the end, Anne circles back to red—the color she’s loved since childhood, the color that announces her presence to the world. For her, design isn’t a product; it’s a legacy of connection. The mark we leave behind isn’t ink or pixels—it’s how we made others feel seen.
-
Carrie Fox
Hi, and thanks for joining us for this episode of the Mission Forward Podcast. We are right in the middle of this season 11 with just as many terrific conversations behind us as we have ahead of us. today's conversation among them. Now if you've listened to this show for a while, you know that I love to feature a different member of the Mission Partners team each season. And this season I am thrilled to have our design director and one of my business partners on the line for a show about designing for impact. Anne Kearns is Designer Extraordinaire. She is the genius behind nearly every rebrand we have led here at Mission Partners, including our own. And I wanted Anne on this season because we've been talking a lot about perspective, how we look back and how we prepare to look forward. And the reality is design plays a very big role in shaping that perspective. I should say that Anne is more than our design director and partner, though. She is a natural-born teacher who has taught me so much. Literally every chance I have to learn from her, I love. She digs deep into the historical understanding of design. She helps brands make sense of their current and future brands. And she is more well-read than anyone I have ever met on the origin of fonts. and the meaning behind colors. No joke. This woman is incredible. Like some people love shoes, this woman loves fonts and color, and especially red. And I love learning all about them from her. So today's conversation is both going to be informative and fun and hopefully a great big bright spot in your day. So, Anne, I am thrilled to have you here. Thanks for being willing to share some knowledge and some fun facts on design on the Mission Forward Podcast. Thanks for being here.
Anne Kerns
Well, thank you so much, Carrie, for having me. I'm excited for our conversation as well.
Carrie Fox
Let's start at the top, right? We are right here in the middle of this season. We've been talking about hellos and goodbyes and the space between. And a few weeks ago you said something to me that's sticking with me. You said, whether we're looking back or we're looking forward, what matters most is how we look at things. Right. And design can be a great tool to help spark curiosity to look and to look again and to look closer at things. And so I'm curious what's sticking with you as you've listened to these shows so far. What have you been coming away with?
Anne Kerns
I really enjoyed I've I've really enjoyed all of the episodes that I've listened to. I think I'm I have one one more yet to go. that was just released uh last week. But the episode with uh Michael Pope and Elisa Popko was so interesting because they are they were exuding a sense of curiosity as well as openness, being open to new things, new experiences. And I think that is actually something that's resonating. Michael Bolden also changing uh his his position, his career. path, that also to me is just really being open to new things. Actually, Lisa Snowden's interview was so interesting about that too, because she said that she didn't expect to be uh the leader of Baltimore beat and the beatboxes But here's an interesting thing. When I was listening to Rich Harwood's episode and all of the talk about community. I was actually preparing for a civic rally that I attended this past weekend. And the idea of community, while maybe it's a little bit. overused is is it's really about us and how we can relate to one another. And I'm, as you know, a gardener. I love to grow flowers and vegetables and herbs. I also love to collect the seeds from what I grow. I'm not sure if that's a little bit of an OCD thing, but. Um, I enjoy keeping my hands busy and picking seeds. And so I have a lot of extra seeds and I decided um no pun intended, actually I should say pun intended. I wanted to help seed community. And so I made little packets of all of my extra seeds and I brought them to this rally. And I had my sign on a sandwich board, but then I had in my hands this bin of seeds for veggies and flowers and herbs. And quite quite a lot of people you know took some because I was like just take please take as much as you'd like um and so it was just a a way to share and to engage in short little conversations with my, you know, geographic community. So people that I that I didn't know but that were at this event.
Carrie Fox
I love that. And I love how Rich's ideas and his kind of call to action sparked that in you. You know, what I think I'm really loving about this season is similar that every season we've talked about community in one way or another, but community This this importance of designing and participating and building the community that you want to be part of, it doesn't It doesn't show up without you taking part in it, without you contributing to it. So I love that you contributed by sharing something that's special to you, one of your skills with your community.
Anne Kerns
Thank you. It was also a way I I'm an introvert, so I'm really happy being at home. And uh and so it's it was also a way to experience community in a way that was comfortable for me because it was You know, almost like using seeds as a as a crutch, to be honest.
Carrie Fox
I love that. All right. So let's talk a little more about the things that you've designed, how you've contributed, and what design has done for you, right? Like how to how you've looked at life through this design lens that you've kept for so many years. And and maybe just one bit of background for the team. I did a or for the listeners, I did a very quick opening at the top. Your background is so incredible. You have had so many different types of experiences. And when you talk about your design background, you often talk about some of the through lines that you've had that have contributed to how you look at the world today. Just give a little bit of that background and then I'm going to go into my next question.
Anne Kerns
Well, I have a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of Maryland, which is somewhat odd for d people who are in the design field. Usually it's a fine art degree, uh, at least these days. And so I had a really well-rounded general education as well as really deep dives into different aspects of design because when I did studied design, it was before computers were, you know, everywhere. If I say that uh I used Adobe PageMaker 1. 0, my senior year in college. You know, that's that's a program that's not even in existence anymore, although Adobe obviously was, is. I come from a family of teachers. So I think that some of that curiosity is innate, perhaps, or was absorbed during conversations around the dinner table. My dad is a retired professor of anatomy. My mother was a home economics teacher and and and has a had a m masters of interior design. So education was highly appreciated and valued and I never felt any pressure to, you know, do anything other than what I discovered and wanted to do. So I have had a lot of curiosity. Um I did fairly well in school. And then I started to get jobs. I worked for a retail department store chain in the headquarters. I worked at a PR firm that was I want to say it was apolitical, but it's it's not. It it had a the two leaders, one was a Republican, one was a Democrat. So it was
Carrie Fox
Back in those days when that actually worked.
Anne Kerns
Yeah. Totally worked. Um I I have worked at a couple of different small design firms and then I started, I went out on my own. And I've also been an adjunct uh professor at George Mason University and the University of Maryland. So I like to share information. I like to, you know, get information. I like to share information.
Carrie Fox
One of the things that you have both uh done exceptionally well here for our brand at Mission Partners, but for every rebrand I've ever seen you work on is you use design as a connector. Right? You don't sit in your office all by yourself and say, I'll see you in three months and I'll sh I'll show you some ideas. You are really deeply hands-on understanding that the process of design is community building in itself. And this to me is such a differentiator. With every designer I've worked on, you just have this slightly different way of thinking about the importance of design as the connector to community, the process of design as a connector to community. So I want you to talk a little bit about that, right? Design is a great tool for deepening understanding. And it's a tool for activating community. So talk to me a little bit about that, how you've used that and why that's so important.
Anne Kerns
I remember attending a lecture, I believe it might it was in the early 90s, but please no one quote me on that. That the well-known designer and illustrator Bob Gill gave to an audience of area designers. And he had an example that he said, if you're designing for something and you only have one hour, let's say it's a logo for a laundromat. Go to the laundromat, sit there for 45 minutes, and then design for the last 15. Most people can't design a logo in an hour, but The idea being that you have to immerse yourself in what the problem is, the quote unquote design problem. And so that means observing, um talking to people. Being in the situation, because that's when insights can be uncovered that can help you design to be appropriate, whatever the most appropriate solution is With my education, I it was always sort of emphasized to me that design has to make sense. Every mark should make sense. Nothing is extraneous, you know, nothing is decoration. Of course, sometimes decoration can can be a reason, so I'm not trying to diss on d decoration and how things look because I do think that's important as well. But things need to make sense. They might need to reference a behavior or uh an audience or a product, a service, whatever it is. And so really involving yourself as the designer into the situation, but also Involving the community, whether it's in focus groups asking questions or doing surveys, doing research Some things superficial research are fine and adequate. Some things r really require deeper research, deeper digging into what you know what's what's going on there. You know, having things make sense, being able to answer the why. You know, why are these lines here? What do they represent? Or what should they evoke? Or what are they emanating, whether it's a rhythm or uh a stillness or a seriousness, you know, there's so many things that be can be communicated via design.
Carrie Fox
I'm gonna pick up that on that and actually tee you up to tell us a story in a minute about one of the clients that we worked on, uh our rebrand for. But I'm thinking back to an interview that I listened to many, many years ago when Steve Jobs was talking about how he had designed some of the early Apple products. And he said I've designed them where you don't need a user manual. You should be able to open up that box, know how to turn it on, and know how to set it up. It should be intuitive. And I think a lot about that when I think about your process for design, that the idea of making it make sense to not just you as the person who's maybe sitting in the executive director seat or the the board who is guiding the future of the organization, but to make a brand makes sense to as many people who are experiencing it, whether it's for the first time or for the 500th time, right? That it feels inherently right and natural, reflective of that brand as you know it. So it's that marrying up of that kind of visual brand experience with the actual real experience of how you Sit inside that laundromat, for instance, right? And and there is a real art to that, that you said can't just be sketched out in an hour, but I'd like you to actually tell us a little bit about what you did for one of our longtime clients, the Johnson Foundation at Wingspread. They had an opportunity to revisit a beautiful historic logo that had a couple problems in terms of its use in digital. The process you took them through I thought was so fascinating. So Tell us a little bit about that and how it how it matches up with that Bob Gill example you shared a couple minutes ago.
Anne Kerns
In late 2023, I believe that's when it was, that we started the uh brand refresh process. And actually, uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna say we did a brand refresh for them, not a rebrand, because A rebrand generally is called for when the market conditions uh would would indicate you know, a a problem. Maybe there's a reputational harm, maybe there's an addition or subtraction of audience or of products or services, some major kind of change or challenge. uh that can be when it's appropriate to actually rebrand. Start right from ground zero again. Whereas a brand refresh, I like to think of as more of an evolution. Very few logo companies have logos that have remained unchanged throughout their organizational history. And so it's appropriate to revisit an organization's logo from time to time. But there should definitely be reasons behind, you know, why now? Why why should we be looking at this refresh or evolution now? In the case of the Johnson Foundation at Wingspread, Not only did the team, of course, address messaging and how they talk about themselves, but the logo was actually designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. And it's a beautiful mark. In fact, it shows up in a lot of different places on the Wingspread campus, including in cement at the front door. There's a beautiful copper medallion. And so while it is a beautiful mark and a beautiful design, it had problems working as a logo in the 21st century. It had a very complex configuration. It had very thin lines, which are extremely hard to reproduce well at large and small sizes It was, it was just, it needed, it needed something. There were also several different levels of typography that had been added over the years. And so each line had a slightly different treatment or, in fact, different font. So my suggestion was that it would be appropriate to revisit the logo and explore what might be possible. And so we went through quite a a wide array of research, including looking at peer organizations, looking at their logos, their visual identity. And what we ended up with in a collaborative manner was something that was simplified but yet maintained the same footprint. I I've used that term in fact with mission partners uh brand refresh as well. So it's not that it was a a complete change and totally different. It had a lot of elements that brought over And it was a great process, but the turning point for me was when I accompanied some of my colleagues. on a focus group trip actually out to the property. And not only did we get to hear from community members, staff members, leadership, um family members even, uh, but experiencing the property, experiencing the aesthetics of the wing spread house. And even the SC Johnson headquarters in Racine, Wisconsin, it was a very it was so interesting to see some of the circular motifs and geometric designs that Frank Lloyd Wright had used at Wingspread also into some of these other instances, like at the research tower of the SC Johnson property. So I actually felt even more strongly after that visit that we shouldn't be throwing everything away and starting from scratch. But I came back to a tighter simplification of the mark. So it wasn't uh it wasn't like a cousin, it was more like a sibling in the sense of the evolution. And the fact that it got approved is actually, you know, the the final test because there's still quite a bit of Not only history and legacy, but like family feelings. You know, this started off as a property that was built for the family, and the family still exists And so, you know, it was really important to listen and to respect those inputs.
Carrie Fox
You know, I I love that story so much because I think it's a great reminder of people who are listening who say, I am part of a storied brand. How could I ever adjust a storied brand? And I think what you did through that example was a reminder that we can keep a deep connection to our history while also carving a path out to our future. Right. And so if we carry that idea forward, and I'm glad you started where you did, there's a difference between a rebrand and a refresh. That right now I am hearing from a lot of folks across different sectors, different industries who are going through. fairly robust changes inside their organizations. Now that could be as a result of strategic planning, that could be a result of a merger, changing leadership. outside forces, changing the ultimate kind of focus of what the organization is and where they're going, and questioning when is it time? When is it time to say goodbye to one and create space for another, even if it is just a refresh? So I'm curious if there are different questions that you like people to be asking themselves or considerations that folks should have about when the time is right to explore this moving from one brand to an evolved brand.
Anne Kerns
Well, I think that the time can be right anytime to ask those questions. I think going into the process with an open mind without a preconceived notion of what the final should be is really important. The times that we're in, i. e. , you know, the digital age, simply requires a different set of characteristics. than for example the early 20th century or even you know pre-computer age when when uh not everybody had a personal computer or in fact a little computer in their hand that they can put in their pocket and take with them everywhere.
Carrie Fox
The thing I think you do so well is It's not just about is the style right for the moment, but is it accessible to the widest audience possible? And I have heard you several times say Can we look at this through a color lens to see what does it look like? How does this logo? How does this mark convey to someone who may be color-limited or colorblind? Let's look at the the font and the thin lines versus thick lines of the font and how that reads to someone who may be again kind of visible having limitations with their visibility. So you think a lot about accessibility as much as you're thinking about style, form, function. Talk to me a little bit more about that.
Anne Kerns
Oh, absolutely. Design can open doors, if you will, and it can also shut them. So for for sighted people Um, you know, design is a primarily visual response. You look at something, you take it in, you might have certain feelings evoked by the colors that are used, or the style of fonts or typography that are used. But design is about communicating. And so when we expand and try to communicate to as many people as possible because you know we don't know ex maybe exactly who where our audience might be coming from. It can increase the communication, it can increase the accessibility. And so colors that I maybe learned to combine in design school are very different than colors that are that have enough contrast, for example, to be uh to differentiate information for somebody who might have site problems or di deficiencies. Um does you know, if you think about a curb cut That was something that was developed uh sidewalks when you get to a a corner and and the the curb actually goes down so that wheelchairs can go through. That actually helps people who have uh temporary disabilities like if they uh broke their leg and they're using crutches, or temporary quote unquote disabilities such as uh Actually, I guess the breaking the leg is a temporary disability. Contextual disability, for example, a parent pushing a stroller. Maybe there's a kid on a skateboard, somebody on a bike. In other words, it was done originally for one population, but multiple additional populations benefit from it. And so if we approach the design activity not only from a perspective of community and who are we trying to communicate with and to, um, but also opening it up so that it can be available for as many people as possible. I think the uh government actually, the federal government defines Accessibility as effective communication. So it's incumbent upon us to do everything we can to make effective communications.
Carrie Fox
Mm. Mm. That's a good reminder. And and another good uh just thought to leave folks with who are listening that if you're wondering when will it be time for our organization to take on a rebrand? Well, sometimes it's just a matter of doing a bit of an audit on how accessible is your current brand. So how does your brand convey to those who may have limitations in their sight, in their um color in in any number of disabilities. And I like that phrase you use, contextual disabilities, which I think is an an important way of thinking about designing for the widest group of your audience, not for the narrow. expected group of your audience or known group of your audience.
Anne Kerns
Yes, in fact, uh one of the sayings and I didn't come up with this is designing for the margins because the margins the That's where we all need to be in order to increase to the widest.
Carrie Fox
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Anne Kerns
And that goes for designing experiences, whether it's a health. deliver healthcare delivery experience. I've heard so many interesting lectures over the years that talk about that kind of frame change, if you will, um that when you design for the margins, you improve the experience for everyone.
Carrie Fox
Mm, mm-hmm. Great. I love that. I love it. All right. So we're coming to the end. And I must ask you about this because it's the It's the topic du jour here, uh, which is AI, right? The implications of AI. And for people who are listening, including some who have reached out to me directly, who have said, hey, could I can I just use AI to design my logo? And I cringe. Um and I know you do too, right? There is a w a lot of wonderful, wonderful ways to use AI, as you know at Mission Partners, we like to think about it as augmenting the intelligence of the humans on our staff, not replacing the intelligence or the creativity. How do you think about and how might you guide people listening on how to use AI in a design function?
Anne Kerns
Well, number one, it's really great for research. I think that it's a a quick way to assemble potentially peer organizations if you're comparing visuals or how they talk about themselves Because it's scraping the internet. And so that can be a real benefit in gathering information, but that can also be a real problem because if you use AI to design It's scraping information from the internet. So there are copyright issues, there are ethical issues, there are originality. you know, creativity, all of those things. Um a couple of years ago when I first tried to experiment with that um making a logo, uh I had heard about, I can't remember now the program, but I had heard about a program that was supposed to specifically be for logos. And it asked a lot of prompt questions. And what it came out with was worse than clip art books of the past century, where you could, you know, cut out a little picture of a a plumber and paste that up to your business card if you were a plumber and people knew, okay, you're a plumber. This is exactly, it looks like exactly what you do. These days I think that It's really important to try to evoke feelings. I love to ask clients questions about what adjectives would you use to describe how you want this to feel? What adjectives you know, do you want people to think of? Like adjectives are just my absolute favorite part of speech. And so I think, you know, AI is not doing that. And I'll say yet because um of course it could be coming, but uh it's I th even even ethical usage is changing constantly. So I think it's important to be up on it, to experiment. But I don't let AI programs actually design for me. I pull out my pencil and my sketchbook and start with that.
Carrie Fox
Excellent. And it goes back to where you started, Ann. You talked a lot about observing and documenting early on. And I like that you started with AI as a wonderful tool to help with the research, to aid with the research. And then you put that aside and you pick up that pencil and you start to sketch. So
Anne Kerns
I will say that AI is also good for mocking up ideas that you come up with for perhaps. whether it's uh 3D mock-ups or if you're a UX designer doing um the whole experience through uh an AI powered mock-up tool. I mean there are there are definitely a lot of great uses and and there are big companies that have been using it for for large name clients. A couple years ago I think there was a There was an a Coca-Cola ad um at Christmas time that was like the polar bears, and they just you know, they didn't they looked creepy. Um because it it you could tell somehow that it it lacked the human involvement, the human touch. And since we are all humans, communicating with humans, I think it's important to maintain that. I was listening to uh a video earlier today on YouTube and It was a designer who was talking about how they used AI. And she specifically said, I don't let AI design for me because it's soulless. Making sure that your design still has a soul is important, although it's hard to describe. It's kind of like that's one thing that you could say you know it when you see it.
Carrie Fox
Right. So quick anecdote that reinforces that that several years ago you and I were working on a rebrand for a school. And we had received quite a bit of information from the team we were working with. They had given us a color palette they were really interested in. We were playing it out and then we were testing that with students, right? With the the primary audience. And several folks in that focus group said that we were using red in some of the mock-ups. So they said red reminds me of the red pen and that turns me off. right versus the blues and the yellows and the oranges that felt dynamic and actually warm and invited them in. We wouldn't have have heard that ever. through an AI function ever. But there was something there about the human connection, having people experience it and watching us or letting us watch them experience it for the first time. that ultimately informed a beautiful and community informed design. So just something else to think about on how you use design as a connector to your community, not just something you do and then roll it out to your community.
Anne Kerns
You know, every color has both positive as well as negative connotations. And red, for example, is a very active color. It uh when the when humans are exposed to red, it activates the autonomous nervous system. It might make your heart beat faster. It might warm you up. It's a strong color. It's a passionate color. It's decisive, but it's also potentially danger. And red X on the on the students, you know, homework or whatever. And so that is what was resonating with those students. So you could name all the positive qualities in the world And that's not gonna keep them from thinking of a big red X. So another way that design can help not only bridge and inform community, but also communicate the right thing.
Carrie Fox
Right, right. And then ultimately design becomes the connector, not the divider.
Anne Kerns
Right. And there are a there are a lot of AI programs that will come up with color palettes for you. I do not use those. I really love to pick my own colors. I had a whole semester class dedicated to color theory, which unfortunately most design schools do not do anymore, because there's just not enough time in the programs. But coming up with my own color palettes based on my knowledge of what what the colors either represent or evoke. That's fun. I don't want to give that up to AI. That's you know one of the things that I really love to do. And uh and then coming up with different ways to use those color palettes. uh is also fun and reinforces whatever communication one is trying to get across.
Carrie Fox
We might do another episode of this show and just do colors with you because honestly, Anne, it it feels like it would be a party game for me to be like, okay, what's red mean? What's orange mean? And have folks understand and learn how much uh deep uh science goes behind the colors we choose, the colors we connect with, and honestly, how much our own personal experiences inform how we see those colors, knowing that the way we see them isn't always even the same way that we see them and experience them.
Anne Kerns
Yeah, I I would love that. That would be such a fun thing to do. I have a whole bookshelf that's dedicated just to color books And um, and I've read, I'll say most of them. Um, I have an awful lot of books that I haven't read across my walls of of bookshelves, but uh but color is fantastic.
Carrie Fox
So let's wrap up with a couple rapid fire questions. They may be a about color, they may not. Um, but let's start first with since we're we're talking hello, goodbye, space between this season. How do you like to say hello? Do you choose a hug or a handshake or something else? What's your go-to way to say hello?
Anne Kerns
I really try to read the body language of the person that I'm interacting with because I don't want to make them uncomfortable. Um, but I'm always happy to to hug.
Carrie Fox
What is your favorite way to say hello? That could be language, that could be body language or a symbol you make. What's your favorite way to say hello?
Anne Kerns
I like to say hi, H I, with an exclamation mark, but in my head I'm also saying bonjour. And say, hey, which is H-E-J, which is uh Norwegian or Swedish. I have some Norwegian um background. And so sometimes I have a whole other conversation in my head.
Carrie Fox
Love it. Love it so much. What do you never leave home without?
Anne Kerns
Water. I am prone to dehydration and so I will almost always have uh a travel mug of water or iced tea.
Carrie Fox
Thank goodness for you, Anne, and for not saying your phone, because it's nice to hear a different answer to that question this season. So thank you for that. Love it. And in this big game of life, what do you hope to leave behind?
Anne Kerns
Uh the idea that when people remember me, they will remember the color red because it is my favorite color. And quick story about that, when I was um a baby, I got a book from my aunt and uncle, and the book was called Anne Likes Red. And it's a book that my family would read to me over and over and over again. And in fact, there was a reissue a few years ago, actually I would say probably it was early 2000s, but there was a reissue of this book. And Anne likes red. Red red red. A blue dress, Anne? No. A red dress instead. Ah and so it it was An a book designed for teaching kids how to read because it only had 19 words and there was it was a lot of repetition, but yeah, red is my favorite color.
Carrie Fox
So, what I know about what what you have imparted in me and what will stay with me forever is your knowledge. of all things design, your love of design, your passion for design, how you convey that. So much where my daughter, when she was Gosh, when Kate was probably six or seven, she met you for the first time. And I remember so you you came over to our house and you were here for a while. We were working on a project together. And she said, I like her. And I said, tell me why you like her. I like her too. She said, she likes red. Because you had this gorgeous red hair. You were wearing a red cape. Um, it just stuck with her. So We all we all love you Ann and you show up in the world in a special way.
Anne Kerns
That's what I want to leave.
Carrie Fox
I love it. All right, my friend. Thanks for being with us today. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your knowledge. And we're gonna do this again at some point. And I'm gonna just do kind of a trivia game on tell us all about color and its meeting, which which will be a lot of fun. But for now, thanks for being with us and for all you do to uh help brands come to life at Mission Partners.
Anne Kerns
Thank you, Carrie. It was a pleasure to be here.
