Courageous Conversations with Ronnie Galvin
About This Episode
Community, says our guest this week, is not a place. It's a practice.
It is a practice of authenticity, vulnerability, mutual support, and accountability in creating meaningful connections between each and every one of us. And he should know. He's dedicated his life and career to helping others challenge assumptions and daring to dream of a new future together.
We welcome Rev. Ronnie Galvin to the show this week to share his journey through social change and community building. He's an incredible advocate and change agent, and, in spite of the challenges and strife he sees around us today, he's also an optimist: "I fundamentally believe that our capacity to solve the biggest problems in front of us is directly related to the experience and the practice of community that we engage in with each other in a world where it feels like everything is falling apart."
His current enterprise, Communivation, is an embodiment of his passion for aiding people, organizations, and movements to convene and generate transformative ideas for community experience and practice. Despite the despair and angst felt in these challenging times, Galvin expresses his firm belief in the power of community to solve the biggest problems faced by society and "to interrogate our current reality fiercely and lovingly, but also dream about and reimagine and practice the future that we want together." The conversation is a powerful reminder of the role of community in fostering justice, equity, and sustainability.
Thank you, Reverend Galvin, for joining us on Mission Forward.
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Carrie Fox:
Welcome to Mission Forward. Hi there, and welcome to the Mission Forward podcast, where each week we bring you a thought-provoking and perspective shifting conversation on the power of communication. I'm Carrie Fox, your host and CEO of Mission Partners, a social impact communications firm and a certified B corporation. Today we are inviting you to join us for a very special conversation with Rev. Ronnie Galvin.
Why so special? Well, there's a few reasons. I have admired Ronnie since the very early days of my work in social impact communications, and I have been wanting to have this conversation with him for, well, a very long time. And two, because Ronnie Galvin is a force for change. In all of his roles, he has guided leaders and organizations to interrogate, reimagine, and redesign local and regional systems. So they produce justice, equity, sustainability, and broadly health, wealth. Hold on to that for a moment. Ronnie has committed his life's work to community building, community organizing, and social change, and having seen the effect of his work up close, I can tell you this, Ronnie knows how to stir things in the souls of communities that make tally good things happen.
He's a community builder, convener, and founder of Commnivation, an enterprise that supports people, organizations, and movements as they convene for the purpose of birthing big, hairy audacious ideas that transform the practice and experience of community. So with all of that, you can tell why I am excited and have been so excited to have this conversation with Ronnie Galvin today.
Ronnie, as we invite you into this conversation and what will unfold over this next 20, 25 minutes, I'd love if you first just tell us about you. Tell us about Ronnie Galvin and what brings you to this incredible purposeful work that you do.
Ronnie Galvin:
Thank you, Carrie. And I tell you everything that you just said, I need to include that in my bio. Matter of fact, I need to just make that my bio. Thank you so much, and it's so good to see you and hear you again and to be in community with you. If I'm understanding the question, like what brings me to this work? I grew up in Miami, Florida in a community called Richmond Heights, and I invite people to Google it. I am learning as an adult. It was, and still is, one of the earliest planned African-American communities in the country. And it was working class mostly, but we had doctors and lawyers and folks of the like, and we had folks who were struggling and it was a kind of community all black, and it was a kind of community where everybody's mama was everybody's mama. In our community at least, we didn't have folks going hungry. We didn't have folks homeless. There was a church on every corner as it is in many African-American communities.
And there was this sense of reverence for elders and children were cherished and held to high standards. Education was always key and foremost for us. And this is what I remember the most, that we were all in it together. And we had each other's back. We had many, many mother and father figures in our community, and there was one woman in particular, she was about 6' 5''. She wore a wig that often tilted to the side. She drove a really big car that always had a bunch of people in it and her house always had a bunch of people in it. And if you crossed her wrong, she could get be very fiery. And her name was at least what we called her was Madea, Madea or Mother Dear in the Deep South. And we see that figure actually on the big screen these days, and we think that Tyler Perry actually stole that character from our neighborhood.
But anyway, it was that kind of neighborhood and that feeling of community is what I have craved ... Ever since leaving Richmond Heights, I held onto it when I was in college at the Citadel Military College of South Carolina. That's a whole other conversation, maybe another podcast. As I did the corporate thing for a while, went into seminary, every place I found myself, I was trying to build that community and that sense and experience of community that I wanted so bad for myself. I have found myself wanting to build with other people. And so that's how I got into the work.
Carrie Fox:
Oh my gosh, Ronnie, that is so beautiful. And honestly, we have done so many shows here at Mission Forward. And when I think back to all of the conversations and the stories I've heard, I don't know that anyone has ever started from a place of such a strong and beautiful place to then say, I am going to exist in the world to try to recreate what my experience was.
Ronnie Galvin:
I just know how wonderful it was for me. And even the work work that I do today with Communivation and with the Greater Washington Community Foundation and other places, I fundamentally believe that our capacity to solve the biggest problems in front of us is directly related, Carrie to the experience and the practice of community that we engage in with each other in a world where it feels like everything is falling apart. And I don't know if we'll talk about it, but I feel a lot of despair and angst in this moment, which is unusual for me. The thing that keeps me going is the possibility of community between us.
Carrie Fox:
Well, let's talk about that. We will get to the despair. I know we need to talk about that, but I want to stay focused on this power and possibility. And when you talk about community, we talk about community a lot here, and there's a lot of different ways to understand and define community when you think about it. Tell us more. What is that power and possibility you see there?
Ronnie Galvin:
So it is not limited to geography or place, although place matters, I think significantly is always important. For me, community, I don't think I've ever thought about it this way until this very moment, or it's expressed it this way. It is a practice. It's not just a place, and it is the capacity for people to connect with each other in deep and profound and in some cases, routine ways. Whenever I'm creating space, which is really at the heart of what I think my work and ministry and calling is in the world, we're trying to create the conditions for people to be authentic, to bring their whole self, to be vulnerable, which is not a practice or a value that gets a lot of laud in our society, be vulnerable with each other to engage in the practices of mutual support, reciprocity, accountability, to take risks.
And so for me, community is about these kinds of practice. And there are two other big ones, and I've biased toward one more so in my career, and I'm trying to actually spend more time on this other one. The first one is to interrogate our current reality and to do it fiercely and lovingly, but also to dream about and reimagine and to practice the future that we want together. And that's for me, Carrie, you and I have had conversations for years, that is my growing edge. But all of those things together for me is what community represents. It is a place, but I think it's more so in the work that I do and the calling that I'm pursuing and responding to. It's more of a practice.
Carrie Fox:
Preach my friend. I could just honestly listen to you all day long. And this is what I mean when I say you stir community in people's souls, right? You stir so much every time. I hear you, and I know I've heard you speak to very large crowds, what you do to a crowd is pretty remarkable because it's how you present these concepts that are every day. Every day we are talking about issues of community. But even the way you just framed that, Ronnie, that community is a practice, it is not something to be taken for granted. It's something to protect and work for and cherish, right? And think about how you're going to continue to feed it and fuel it and support it. But that really sounds like it's at the heart of your work.
Ronnie Galvin:
It is, it is, Carrie.
Carrie Fox:
And we'll be right back. Today's episode is brought to you in part by CommonHealth ACTION Equity, Diversity and Inclusion Training Institute. You might remember the name, CommonHealth ACTION from season three of this show, which I co-hosted in partnership with the brilliant Natalie Burke, co-founder of CommonHealth ACTION. Their EDI institute was a transformational experience for me, and I can't recommend this experience high enough. CommonHealth ACTION's EDI training institute features curriculum that supports your perspective transformation. It ensures practical application of that knowledge that you're learning through that experience. In short, they're not just telling you the information, but they're showing you and helping you feel how to use an equity lens to analyze and design policies, programs, and practices while applying that same approach to your individual decision-making behaviors and actions. So check this out and register for an upcoming course. You can learn more at commonhealthaction.org/editraininginstitute. I promise you'll love this information. And back to today's show.
Communivation. This is the latest step on this incredible journey that you've had in this work. Tell us a little more about the inception of Communivation and where you're going.
Ronnie Galvin:
So lots of folks around the DC area around the country know my partner, wife, Dr. Yanique Redwood. And she really helped me see the possibility here. Pandemic hit, and we were both working in philanthropy. For lots of folks and us in particular, the pandemic, how we were all kind of situated, what we're responding to, created a possibility for many of us, not all of us, because I think folks on the front lines did not have this privilege, so to speak. And so I'm speaking from a very privileged perspective here. Many of us had an opportunity to rethink like, well, wait a minute, what am I doing here? And am I making the most of what God has given me? And I use God language given my faith and theology background. Yanique said to me, "I invite you to go back and look at the things that people have always tapped you on the shoulder to do, and were willing to pay you for."
And when I did that, Carrie, I realized that the moments in my life personally and professionally, whether I was getting paid or not, were moments when I was either by myself or with a group of people, bring in another group of people together to build community, to ideate, to explore, to examine and solve problems and to take action. And so the pandemic really presented an opportunity for me to rethink how I activated and shared those gifts and this calling and ministry in the world. And that's from that kind of wrestling emerged this idea around communivation. And what I'm trying to say in that name communivation is that as just as everything around us is evolving and innovating and things of the like, we very well could also have the opportunity to innovate the way that we do community with each other. And so that's what communivation is. It's how do we build spaces, practice, community, and innovate at the same time how we come together.
Carrie Fox:
Yeah. Well, there's so much in that word, and I've thought ever since you first told me about it, that it really does connect to essential parts of your work and the issue at large-- that we need community building to advance a healthy, strong society. And we need communication to help us get there, to bridge the gaps and divides that exist. And so how you bring people together, how you facilitate those spaces really is ... it seems one of the first things you're doing is helping to break down whatever barriers exist so that a stronger foundation can be built in its place.
Ronnie Galvin:
You're the wordsmith here. I'm not the wordsmith, but it dawns on me that in both of those words, communication and communivation and community, all three of those words, there's this kind of prefix, com, and I don't know what comm means. I mean, I know what company means, it means with, and so I'm wondering what you and I are pursuing in our paths is how do we actually ... with means together. How do we bring folks together either with how we communicate or how we're present with each other? That's kind of an aside, but it dawns on me that we need each other. These mechanisms that bring us together are vitally important for our future.
Carrie Fox:
And it's a now more than ever imperative, right? Because I think if we do look back to COVID and what we experienced, that we realize that we as humans are meant to be together. And we realized in our inability to be together how much we needed to be together. That that is an important part to continue to cultivate that togetherness and that belonging. And in some ways, when we think about some of those issues that are keeping people up at night, and some of the issues we're taking on in this series of the show, it is around the divides, how do we limit the divides, how do we reduce the divides, how do we find ways to bring people together across divides. And I'm curious if there are any principles or practices that you've learned that do work even when you are working with folks who seem to be on the complete opposite side of spectrums.
Ronnie Galvin:
So I just want to say so yes, but I will also say it is always an experiment. And this is the innovation part. We are iterating and innovating as we go. And so I'll also say that the spaces where the lines of difference are the greatest are the ones where I'm most alive. Those are the spaces that I love. Now, just as a little preface to your question, the spaces that are most grounding for me are black spaces. Those are spaces where I'm most at home, where, and from an equity standpoint, where I am committed to invest most of my time, and I do believe that there is a social change opportunity that begins with black spaces.
However, in the larger public square, the spaces that are most electric are, for me at least, are the ones where the lines of difference are the greatest. And I would say that to answer your question, what are the things that work? Yeah, if you can bring folks together and help them find their common values, so there'll be a lot that's different. But there's always two or three that are seminal. It's like, okay, we can actually build from there. And so we're still experimenting with this, but there's a real world example out there not to get too political, and we're stealing this from, and you probably know Marshall Ganz. Yep, yep. Marshall Ganz, who's at Harvard School, Kennedy School of Government, I think, who then hooked up with Obama. And if you remember back to Obama's first campaign, you had folks who would never be in the room or space with each other and let alone working with each other for a guy named Obama, who they were able to use a storytelling method to help these folks who were on complete opposites of the divide find their common values.
And that fueled millions of folks who got behind this man named Barack Hussein Obama, who eventually became president. And so if I had to pick one thing, and it's right up your alley, and I want to confess that it's a practice that I am just now starting to pick up again, it sounds hokey to people, particularly to folks who are like myself, who want to fight the power and who want to be radical and things of the like. Well, if we get folks who don't know each other to start telling stories and leverage those stories, and particularly I like the stories that kind of shed light on the status quo and what's wrong about the status quo. What I've always admired about your work, Carrie, is you've always invited us to consider what about stories that talk about the future that we want together.
And I'm going to tell you, that's my idea. I'm a preacher, right? That's my confession to you, that I am now turning to that because I've been stuck, right? I'm turning to that possibility. And what we're seeing is that even though folks are on different sides, there's a lot of things that we want that are very, very serious. Storytelling humanizes the space, it makes it accessible, it creates the sense of vulnerability and openness that we talked about. People start seeing each other in each other's stories. Sorry, so that for me, I think is values, how we use storytelling to help people who are different from each other find common values.
Carrie Fox:
Oh, I love that so much. And my heart is so full. Ronnie, thank you for recognizing that in me. I appreciate that you are touching on something that's so important, and we wanted to take a few moments to talk about, which is values. And I just want to note and maybe ask you, I sense that there is a pretty big difference between values and beliefs and what we value as individuals versus what we believe in as individuals that we tend to find that there's a lot more barriers that exist when we start to talk about what we believe in versus what we as individuals value. And one of the reasons that I see this play out is that when we talk about values, we can think about what we have in common. We can think about it from one person to another.
Our shared values, when we get to a place we start to talk about beliefs, there can be some very hard lines between those beliefs that folks end up putting up walls and then walking away from a conversation. Have you found a distinction between those two things, or do you see them as really overlapping in your work?
Ronnie Galvin:
When we're doing the values work and the storytelling, and I'd love to hear your response to this. When people start telling stories and we're teasing out the values, the storytelling oftentimes reveals values that people didn't even realize they so strongly held, right? And so if you ask somebody, give me your list of values, they may give you four or five values. But then if you ask them to tell you a story about when their back was against the wall, which is a question that theologian Howard Thurman ask, what do you do when your back is against the wall? You start to hear ... I have often heard different sets of values, what we profess sometimes and what we actually do.
What I have found, Carrie, is that when we invite people to tell stories, the values that emerge from their stories are much more sheroic and heroic, much more courageous than the ones they actually profess before they tell their stories. And so I think, again, it speaks to the stories really tell us who people are.
Carrie Fox:
It almost uncovers a depth to someone that we don't take that time thinking about it on our own until we are prompted to think deeply about the stories that we carry and share with us and the stories that shape us, that those stories that shape us and the experiences we have are in fact the elements that help inform our values. And I think what I was getting at with that beliefs piece is also, it sometimes feels to me like you're checking the box. Do you believe in this or this? And folks will often have a quick answer on, yes, of course I believe in this, but have a harder time backing up why they believe in something. Whereas when you uncover values, they really can bring it to a deeper level, a historical piece on why they value something. So something to watch. And we'll make that a future conversation.
Ronnie Galvin:
That's right. Thank you, professor. Thank you.
Carrie Fox:
So we somehow, Ronnie, we're at time already. Yikes. Oh, I want to ask you one more question, and it's what is giving you hope? Do you think about the work you're doing as you think about the incredible life that you're living in, the communities that you are part of, what is giving you hope?
Ronnie Galvin:
So, Carrie, I knew you were going to ask me this question as you should. I want to acknowledge that there isn't a lot that's given me hope. That doesn't mean there isn't anything giving hope, but I just look around and it feels like the ground is disappearing and we are accelerating toward our self-destruction. And so I want to say that as you asked me this question of hope, which I needed to say that because as you know, in my work, part of what I do is I invite people to be honest and courageous about the assessment of our current state.
And my theory of change, and I don't know if I'm still holding onto this strong, lee, but is that if people can consciously embrace the idea that not only is the status quo not working for us, but the systems that are producing the status quo are not working for us, and that we are not the problem, then it opens up the possibility for exploring new ideas, new systematic arrangements, so on and so forth. So that's been my theory of change. And so I think these systems are doing exactly what they're supposed to do. I think that they are leading us to a level of planetary-level destruction. And I don't see that reversing, however, because I'm a preacher. So you have to have a word of hope. Here's where I think the possibility for something different resides. The systems are going to do what they do, where I see hope, and we saw it in the pandemic, this is where I saw it most recently, and it goes all the way back to the community that I grew up in Richmond Heights, Florida.
I saw people taking care of each other. I saw people who didn't have anything, who they were the prime examples of what mutual support and accountability looked like in the midst of crisis. And so for me, what is giving me hope is all the places in Southeast DC, East County in Montgomery County, Bailey's crossing in Fairfax County, the places in our region, I'm talking about the greater Washington DC region where people are struggling. I see them engaged in the practices of mutual support and reciprocity and sharing. So this question of hope, when I think about that, Carrie, it's hope and how change happens. How do we get to the world that we all feel in our hearts and our souls?
So I have reached the point in my work and calling as a community builder where I think, and I hope I'm not tricking myself, but I'm divesting my energy from trying to change the systems that have been designed to create demise for so many people. And the reason why I think we can do that is because these systems are collapsing on themselves. They're consuming themselves and like every system, they have system, they have their rise and they have their fall. And I have a sense that the interlocking systems that are producing a lot of the misery and demise that we see are in some state of decline. You always say what if. What if we divested the energy that we've been using to try to change the current systems? And we use that energy, even if it's just the majority of that energy to start practicing together the future that we want, the future that is embedded in all of our hearts. How do we do that?
Think about the creativity and the possibilities and the imagination and the ideas. And so then when the current systems fade away, everybody's going to be looking around for the new way. And if enough of us have been practicing the future, the future will be present at the very moment we need it. So that for me, I think gives me hope in the midst of all of this crisis that we are experiencing at the moment.
Carrie Fox:
Well, and you know what, even that gives us something to hold onto is it's like a visual of watching a bridge or a building implode while we're standing over here next to the new bridge or the new building that we can't even imagine yet, but we're just standing away from whatever needs to implode to create the space for us to do something new.
Ronnie Galvin:
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Carrie Fox:
Community is a practice is the first thing you said with us today. Well, there is so much that I'm going to hold on to. And one thing I wanted to reinforce, and what I just heard from you is I often hear folks say, the problems are too big, there's nothing I can do about it. The systems are so broken, there's nothing we can do to fix them, right? But what if, what if just each one of us did something, then what and how do we know if we don't try? And so what brings me hope is you and the vision that you've just outlined and the work that you're doing because bit by bit and day by day, we are learning how to practice community through the work that you are doing and the vision that you are modeling and setting for what our future can be.
Rev. Ronnie Galvin, what an awesome honor to spend a little time with you today, and I hope we get to repeat this soon.
Ronnie Galvin:
Likewise, likewise, sister.
Carrie Fox:
Ronnie, let's stay in touch and we'll continue to follow you with love.
Ronnie Galvin:
We will follow you with love as well, Carrie.
Carrie Fox:
All right. Thank you.
