Closing the Wage Gap with Edgility Consulting’s Allison Wyatt
About This Episode
This week, Carrie Fox sits down with Allison Wyatt, co-founder of Edgility Consulting, to discuss the persistent wage gaps that plague our society and the bold steps required to build intentional equity in the workplace.
Wyatt, whose childhood straddling two vastly different economic realities inspired her passion for social justice, shares how her firm disrupts the status quo of compensation practices by engaging entire organizations in the design process, pushing for radical transparency, and looking beyond imperfect market data. Edgility Consulting is helping clients close wage gaps and put upward pressure on salaries for undervalued roles disproportionately held by marginalized groups.
However, as Wyatt notes, achieving pay equity is just one piece of the puzzle in an inherently inequitable society. Biases, stereotypes, and inflexible work cultures continue to impede advancement opportunities, especially for women. Truly sustaining progress, she argues, requires tackling these systemic barriers head-on.
For organizations planning to hire this year, Wyatt offers specific recruiting advice: do your research to ensure fair offers, consider your existing staff to maintain internal equity, and, above all, strive for clarity and consistency in your compensation philosophy.
Our hope, when you’re finished listening this week, is that you’re questioning long-held assumptions about "the way things are done," inspired to reimagine a more equitable future—one organization at a time. Join us for an unflinching look at the challenges we face and the potential for transformative change.
Our great thanks to Allison Wyatt for joining us for this conversation.
This episode is sponsored by Edgility Consulting. Learn more about their incredible work in compensation planning and beyond at EdgilityConsulting.com.
Links & Notes
Allison is the Founding Partner and head of Edgility’s compensation practice
Succession Planning with Edgility Consulting's Christina Greenberg
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Carrie Fox:
Hi there and welcome to the Mission Forward podcast. I'm Carrie Fox, your host and CEO of Mission Partners, a social impact communications firm and certified B corporation. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. We are recording this episode just days after International Women's Day and Women's Equal Pay Day, and I've got equity on my mind and good thing because we've got just the guest to help share some new developments and insights for how equity is advancing in the workplaces all over the country and how you can learn how to apply an equity lens to your growth too. Now, I suspect this audience doesn't need much of a why when it comes to DEI, but I'll say it anyway. When done right, DEI initiatives and investments not only give companies a competitive edge, they can be the very means to mend our broken society. Today's guest knows firsthand the effect that DEI initiatives can have on organizational culture, retention, innovation, and society at large.
For 20 years, she has been guiding companies through compensation audits designed to drive equity in pay, and her work is helping to close the wage gap one company at a time. Allison Wyatt is co-founder and managing partner of Agility Consulting, a compensation and talent management firm that partners with clients to build intentional equity. I love that, intentional equity. Allison is passionate about building equitable talent practices in organizations who are committed to achieving exceptional results. We were so excited to have her partner, Christina Greenberg on last season, and we'll lift that episode right back up in the show notes so you can find it. And I'm so glad to have Allison with us today. Allison, thanks for being with us on the Mission Forward podcast.
Allison Wyatt:
Thank you for having me, I'm pleased to be here.
Carrie Fox:
Me too. So we're going to start with a story. I am hoping that you can tell me a little bit more beyond that brief bio I shared, which is very impressive about you and what drives you to do this work that you do.
Allison Wyatt:
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it really goes back all the way to my childhood. And really from an early age, I grew up in a very rural community in an economically depressed town, and there were just very limited opportunities for the kids in that community that I was growing up with, for the adults in that community. And when I was entering the ninth grade, I received a scholarship to attend a local private school. So ended up in this completely different universe, in this completely different reality. And it was really the first time I saw firsthand how big the opportunity gap really is in the US. Because I was witnessing the opportunities that I and my peers in this new school that I was going to had available to us and then going home on the weekends and during the summers and seeing the dark difference that were available to the opportunities that the kids I'd grown up with.
And this was my awakening to social justice and inequity. So I went on to college as we all do, accumulated lots of college debt, went to work in the private sector to pay some of that off, and ended up working for a subsidiary of Time Warner doing recruiting compensation and talent strategy work while I sort of chipped away at my college debt. And I really fell in love with talent work as a lever for organizational impact. But for me, I wanted to do that work in a sector that I believed could help really solve America's opportunity gap crisis. And obviously based on my personal story, for me that was education. I thought that was the silver bullet. If we could solve that, we could solve everything. Now, a quarter of a century later, I realized that the challenges we face as a nation are far more complex than that.
But that was really how I started my career in social justice work. It was my entree into the space and I've been doing it ever since. And I will say that from that moment on, I've been working with organizations whose entire missions revolve around social justice and impact, and these organizations struggle with these issues just like anyone else. And my belief is just if we can't figure out how to get it right in this space, how can we figure out how to get it right everywhere else? And so my personal mission in life is to do work that will help this sector become the model. When we founded Agility eight years ago, really focused on diversifying the leadership bench in the social impact space and closing those wage and opportunity gaps, shortly thereafter, I spearheaded and launched our compensation practice and really, really just honored to be able to see the impact of that work every day.
Carrie Fox:
Wow, that's incredible. And Alison this work, I know a lot about you, but I didn't realize how deep it is in your bones. It is truly, when I said firsthand, you know it firsthand. Thank you for sharing that story and bringing us along with you.
Allison Wyatt:
Of course.
Carrie Fox:
That is a really good reason why I wanted you to be on the show this season. I mentioned this last time when I talked with Christina, but I talk a lot on the show about the power of values in action. And for those listening, Agility Consulting is a perfect example of what it looks like to have a leadership team that puts their values into action in everything that they do. So if you haven't heard about them, check them out because I really do appreciate their approach to the work and how intentionally connected they are to the work. You also do a lot of your work in higher ed, right? In the education sector. And so I know we're talking broadly today, but is that correct that you are really thinking about how to close this wage gap in higher ed too?
Allison Wyatt:
So absolutely, we have certainly a footprint in that space, but honestly, our consulting practice works across the entire social impact field. We work with organizations like the United Way, planned Parenthood, Teach for America. It really spans the entire sector. So it is definitely a big part of the work that we do, but it's also a lot broader than that as well.
Carrie Fox:
All right, that's good to know. Good. All right, well as noted in the intro today we are talking about closing the wage gap. And your firm has a really clear point of view on this, and I'm going to just read some of your words back to you. Here's what I heard recently. The default approach to compensating talent isn't equitable. So we can't use the old rules and systems and expect different results. How true is that? I'll be the first to agree that the old ways of doing business aren't always the best ways of doing business. So I would love you Allison to tell me how does your way of doing business change that game?
Allison Wyatt:
Yeah, and I think that this was the lens through which our compensation practice was designed. It was how do we disrupt the status quo? And there's a couple of things that we've realized make a difference when it comes to building equitable comp programs and closing those gaps. The first is really engaging the whole organization and the design process. Too often decisions about pay are made by a few senior leaders at the top, and we believe that in order to really build equitable programs, and by the way, not only equitable programs, but programs that map to what your employees value and will land well and be bought in around. But since we're talking about equity, we believe you have to really engage everyone. So we do surveys, we do focus groups, we even facilitate philosophy design sessions with diverse cross sections of organizations that engage staff at all levels and from all backgrounds. And again, this is not only more equitable and inclusive, but it does help to build buy-in and just ensure a smoother implementation process When you get to the very end.
Carrie Fox:
When you're talking about compensation, I imagine you're talking about total compensation, you're asking about benefits, you're asking about experience. You're not simply saying, what do you want to be making?
Allison Wyatt:
Correct. Yeah. Honestly, when we're talking to staff, we're really trying to get even deeper than just the compensation and really understand what do they value overall in this organization? How does compensation fit into that total picture? What are the things that are working well in their organization when it comes to all of their talent management practices? One of the examples I love to use is we'll often have clients tell us, we really want to implement a merit pay compensation program. Great. And then we go engage with staff and survey staff and nobody has any faith in their performance management program at all. It sounds like it's very unclear.
Nobody understands how ratings work. There's a lot of variance in how people are assessed. And so that's an opportunity for us to push pause and say, okay, before we build a compensation program on top of this system that isn't really working, let's pause and let's fix that problem. And then we can layer things on top of it. So it's really important for us to get a holistic vision of how all of these things are working together to make sure that at the end of the day, this program is going to have its intended impact.
Carrie Fox:
I love that. All right. So number one, engage the whole organization.
Allison Wyatt:
And I think the second thing is just transparency, which is getting a lot of attention right now because a lot of states are starting to require salary transparency across the US, but 10 years ago this was pretty much not really talked about at all. And honestly, many organizations were almost terrified to take this leap. I remember a time when we would start talking to our clients about rolling out their salary ranges and they were scared and we've always encouraged our clients to be transparent about pay, and now it's not even an option in many states. So this is becoming more common practice. Now, I always believe that there's a good reason why organizations are scared. And so I used to joke with clients in that situation that that's a really good litmus test. Let's really investigate why. And I think a lot of times the predominant reasons that I would see is either they hadn't done their research and they just didn't know what the market was.
And so they were nervous to go forward with ranges that weren't based on actual data or if they had, maybe they had questions still about how the program was going to work and they didn't feel like they had fully wrapped their heads around it. And so they were nervous about being well prepared to address questions or they were concerned that they hadn't had time to train their managers and prepare them to address questions. These are all really viable reasons. And so our work at that point would be, okay, well, let's solve that problem. And once we solve that problem, then most organizations are actually quite happy to roll things out and be fully transparent. So I think that as more and more states are adopting these laws, and this is becoming more common practice, we're seeing organizations increasingly wanting to do this deep compensation work. So they have a clear rationale around their salary structure, they're confident in the efficacy of their ranges and how they're placing people on it. And they just know that when they roll it out, it's going to make sense to people and be credible.
Carrie Fox:
So transparency is good for the employee and for the employer.
Allison Wyatt:
It really is. It's good for everybody.
Carrie Fox:
All right, you've got a number three for me or no?
Allison Wyatt:
I do. I think the other thing is you have to look beyond the market. We know that there are wage gap in the marketplace and common practice and compensation when you're building salary ranges is to just go out, look at what the market rate is and then replicate that internally. So the problem with that is that you have roles in the marketplace that are overrepresented by marginalized identities and then undervalued in the marketplace. So if you take that approach and you just base your structure solely on market data, you're simply replicating and reinforcing those inequities. So we really try to help our clients consider other options like cost of living wage floors as opposed to cost of labor, and that is typically going to raise the basement of your compensation program and help to close those gaps.
Now I'm very passionate about this approach because I know that this is not only good internally for the staff at the current organization I'm working with, but it's also going to put pressure in the marketplace. Because now that organization is a data point that is going to bring those benchmark values up for those individuals in those roles across the entire market.
So it not only has a positive impact internally, it actually has a systemic impact for change across society if enough organizations start to do things like that. We can actually literally shift the market. And then I think the last thing is you can't correct problems you don't know exist. And so it's really important for organizations to do a wage gap analysis every year. It should be part of salary planning. Honestly, it should be something you look at every single year, anytime you are making decisions about compensation. And so we do that in our work with clients to make sure the program that we're developing for them and the recommendations that we're giving to them are going to close any existing wage gaps.
Carrie Fox:
I'm going to repeat these four because I love how you've just organized that. In compensation, engage the whole organization. Transparency is good for the employee and the employer, good for everyone. Look beyond your market and you can shift the market. We're going to come back to that one in a minute. And then you can't correct a problem that you can't see, right?
Allison Wyatt:
Exactly.
Carrie Fox:
We are what we measure and understanding how we measure that once a year it sounds like is a good process there. I want to dig into number three because it's so relevant to this time that we're in. As I noted at the top, we are recording this in March, just days after Equal Payday, the date that symbolizes how far into the year women must work to earn what men worked in the previous year. Right? Because women earn less on average than men, they must work longer for the same amount of pay. The important part though is the wage gap is even greater for women of color. And to reinforce that point, black women's equal payday is scheduled to take place this year on July 9th. Holy moly. Right. So we've come so far, Alison, and we still have so far to go, so I'm curious to get your take on that.
Allison Wyatt:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, these wage gaps have been persistent for decades and they continue to be very persistent. And I think that a lot of what's behind that is what we just talked about. We've been using the exact same systems and methodology to do compensation work forever. And so when you do the same things over and over again in the same way, it becomes an echo chamber. And I think that's what we're seeing here. I'll say that we at Agility have been really focused on this work since we launched our compensation practice, but it's not something that we necessarily noticed the mainstream bigger firms focusing on. And that really all changed about four years ago. And you do see these practices that I'm talking about becoming more and more common practice, and I'll say from where I sit, I think the reason for that is because employees started to demand better and really put pressure on their employers to look at this and it worked.
The market listened. And so I just would encourage people to recognize the power that employees have, particularly in this labor market where there's been such a labor shortage in multiple areas. So I noticed a stark change four years ago as somebody who's been doing this work for a decade and promoting this work through Agility for a decade and longer before that. There was a tide change.
Carrie Fox:
So a guy asked the burning question, and I previewed this one before we started, but there are many nonprofit leaders who are listening to the show who are thinking, this is all fine and good. We know that this is what we need to do. We totally hear the strategy and follow it, but how do we do it? If we know that there's limited resources to distribute, how do we start? Where do we start? Is this even possible for us to consider?
Allison Wyatt:
Yeah, I think that it's such a great question because I think that it's hard, I have a lot of empathy for the organizations that we're working with. They're resource constrained, their values are in the right place. They don't probably have in-house compensation experts. And I always like to joke that very few people study compensation design as a hobby on the side. So it's not something that where there's common knowledge around. And I think that that really makes it difficult to just know how do I chip away at this as an organization? So I think that if I were to sort of think about what I can do as an organization to get started, I start where Agility starts, listen to your employees and find out what is really important to them. And sometimes, and honestly I'll tell you most often it's not even about the amount of money people are earning so much as it's about transparency and clarity.
People really understanding how decisions are made, people understanding what they can do to impact their compensation. Knowledge is power, so giving people knowledge is free. You can do that for free. That would be the first thing is just listening and then being really clear. And I think that there's kind of this, would you tell your mother litmus test? If there's anything that you don't feel being clear about, then you put that on your list of issues you need to solve and you just chip away at those things one at a time. We have a bonus program, but we don't really know how we make decisions about bonuses, so how can we clarify that for staff? That's really, really helpful data to have, right? Now as an organization that that's a question you need to answer.
And so I think that's the biggest thing is just listening and then starting to get clarity on how you're going to make these decisions so that you can then ensure you're going to be consistent in how these decisions are applied, because that's part of equity too. Your compensation at an organization should not depend on who you work for or whether or not you have exposure to a given individual. Consistency is really, really important. I think the only other thing I would say is that it's not that expensive to do a study and figure out how you compare to the market and to look internally at your wage gap. And I think, like I said, you can't fix something that you don't know exists. So I would encourage organizations to look at whatever data you can or get some help and get an organization to help you actually know where you even are at as a starting point.
Carrie Fox:
Great advice. So I want to dig one step deeper than that on the practical nature of what it looks like. And what I'm hearing you really talk about that I appreciate is that this is a long game strategy and long game on two levels. One, it really sets your organization up for long-term sustainability. You're thinking long-term about your own company's future, but it's also not an overnight adjustment to say, we're going to adjust our salaries and our compensation package in the next three months. This is a longer game approach. So I'm curious, when you are engaging with the organizations, obviously that is a really important research phase, that learning phase. But what does it typically look like for an organization who maybe says, okay, if this is something I need to do, from beginning to end? What does that process look like?
Allison Wyatt:
Yeah, I mean, I think that oftentimes perfection is the enemy of progress. So you really can't expect perfection overnight. And oftentimes we're working with our clients on a sequenced approach. I'm going to get better and better at this over time. And that's okay that we're on this journey and that's okay. So I think that you start with that mindset of let me understand where I'm at and how I make progress. I think of an example of a client that wants to implement a cost of living wage floor, like I mentioned earlier, which you hear me talk about it and it sounds like a wonderful thing. Why doesn't everybody do this, right? Well, imagine an organization that in doing that would create this completely financially unsustainable model and have to lay off 20% of their staff. I mean, ultimately that's not good for anyone. And so you have to kind of realize that these issues are complicated.
And part of what you have to do is really think through the consequences and the trade-offs and then build a plan out for several years that allows you to continue to make progress toward that final destination without putting your organization in jeopardy. Because you're always trying to balance internal equity, external competitiveness, and financial sustainability. And those three things can often work at odds with each other because even if some, I'll have clients say like, well, I want to value these two jobs in the same way, but the market values this job so much more highly, how would I ever be able to find people and fill that position? And so there are a lot of pressures on organizations that have gotten us to where we are today, and those are systemic, and those are really difficult to work against, but there are ways to do it, and it happens one step at a time.
Carrie Fox:
So I'm going to invite our listeners to ask themselves a question that I love and I ask a lot on this podcast, which is, what if? You suspend this belief for a moment and consider entering into a compensation audit or exploration to see what it would look like for you to imagine how you pay, how you compensate, how you engage your employees in that process? What could the future of your organization look like? What could potentially be holding you back now that a process like this might actually unleash in the power that you have to move that mission forward? So Allison, you've given us so much to think about today.
Allison Wyatt:
Yeah.
Carrie Fox:
I've got one last question for you, but let me ask you first, is there anything that we haven't touched on before I go to that last question?
Allison Wyatt:
So I think the one thing that I also want to raise is that, I mean, as you said, we're on the heels of equal payday and we see how much further we still have to go. And I think one thing I do have to say is it's not just about compensation. I think that we do have to acknowledge that there are other factors. Statistically speaking, we see women stepping back and taking on more demands on the home front, which just impedes their ability to advance their career at the same rate as men. We have not built work cultures that allow women to have these systems and flexibility and support that they need to not have that be a barrier. And then you layer on top of that biases and stereotypes that barricade opportunities for advancement for people.
So I just want to emphasize that pay is certainly part of the puzzle, but honestly, in a way, it's kind of the end result of an inequitable society. And if we really, really want to make long-term sustaining progress, we have to focus on those things as well. And I think in many ways the pay will follow if we do that.
Carrie Fox:
That's a great insight and reminder. So here's that last question. So for folks who are listening who plan to hire this year, what advice would you give them on how to make the most of that growth opportunity?
Allison Wyatt:
As I said, I'm a recruiter and a compensation expert, so I have to answer that question from both.
Carrie Fox:
Okay, I'll take it.
Allison Wyatt:
I can't help myself. So first thinking about the compensation lens, I would say do your research. Do not guess. Make sure that you've done your research so that when you go forward to make an offer, you can make a really fair offer. And then also make sure that you're also thinking about the folks you already have on the bus and then that you're not making an offer that's going to set things internally out of whack with your existing staff. Because it's A, not fair and B, Everybody will find out and you will completely lose credibility in your compensation program. And then you'll be hiring a firm like Agility to fix the problem. And by then, it's really hard because you've painted yourself into some corners, although you can do it. And there's ways to get out of those corners. I think just remember that keeping the amazing talent that you have is just important as finding new people.
And on that lens, I'll transition now to how to find great people. I think the biggest thing, if you want to build a really amazing diverse team, you have to be a proactive recruiter. I think that you can't just accept the candidate pool that happens to apply. You have to go and research people and reach out. Recruiting is sales. So you have to get out there and you have to really be willing to talk about why your organization is an attractive option for staff from all backgrounds. There is incredible talent out in the world that comes from all different backgrounds. And your job as a recruiter is to kind of get out there and promote that your values and that message so that you can tap into those pools.
Carrie Fox:
Alison, this was such a great conversation. I learned so much from you. I've got all of your tips written down here so I can go back and think about how we make sure we're implementing everything we can here at Mission Partners, but also so that our clients and our friends who are listening, that they can think about and turn to you when they hit those fork in the road moments. So thanks for being with us, Alison.
Allison Wyatt:
Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.
Carrie Fox:
And that brings us to the end of this episode of the Mission Forward podcast. As Mission driven leaders, we know our people are our greatest asset. Certainly we know that at Mission Partners, and we can't move our mission forward without people. Agility Consulting. I've had a chance to get to know them over the course of the past year, and I'm so glad we had time with Alison Today. They are a compass for building equitable organizations where people thrive. Their talent management experts empower you to break free from traditional hiring, compensation, and talent management norms that perpetuate inequality and prevent you from hiring and retaining great people. So put your values to work, act on equity. Visit agilityconsulting.com to talk to one of their consultants about upgrading your talent system. Attract and retain top talent, and ensure equity at your organization today. Thanks for listening, my friends. Look forward to seeing you next time on the Mission Forward podcast.
