Bridging Divides with Brian Fox and Bridget Pooley
About This Episode
Polarization. It’s all around us. Humans are feeling less connected to their neighbors and more attached to their screens and data. Political affiliations have created new divides, and even as workplaces become more diverse, many report feeling lonelier than ever. We at Mission Forward believe there's another way.
This week, Carrie Fox sits down with Mission Partners' Chief Operating Officer Bridget Pooley and Chief Strategy Officer Brian Fox to explore how connections can be strengthened in the workplace and beyond. Recorded in front of a live audience, they discuss practical strategies for bridging divides and leading by example.
The conversation covers the importance of shifting perspectives, building empathy, and finding common ground—without necessarily seeking 100% agreement. Pooley and Fox share examples of facilitating understanding across age groups and challenging communication norms to foster more inclusive cultures.
They also highlight the power of storytelling as a tool for connection and the need for leaders to create spaces for people to share their experiences. Ultimately, this is a conversation about hope that we can bridge the gaps that divide us with intentional adjustments to how we engage with one another.
Links & Notes
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Speaker 1:
Breaking news.
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Breaking news.
Speaker 3:
It's the year of the chat bot.
Speaker 4:
The latest setback for climate action.
Speaker 5:
The latest Supreme Court ruling.
Speaker 6:
The court is set to redefine...
Speaker 1:
In the latest Supreme Court ruling, the court is set to redefine...
Carrie Fox:
Hi there and welcome to the Mission Forward podcast. I'm Carrie Fox, your host and CEO of Mission Partners, a social impact communications firm and certified B corporation. Thanks for tuning into today's episode. This topic of today's show is Bridging Divides and it's a topic that many of you have asked me to take on directly.
In recent months, you'll see I have written quite a bit about this topic, about polarization, digital divides, and the effect that smartphones are having on our interpersonal communications and relationships. We decided to take your questions, to gather some folks who equally care about this topic and record this show in front of a live studio audience. We hope you enjoy the format, and if you would like to be with us for a future live recording, drop me a line at carrie@mission.partners.
Enough of that onto today's show. Everywhere we turn, it seems polarization is on the agenda and for good reason. Research shows that people feel less connected to their neighbors and more connected to their smartphones than ever before. People report experiencing incivility at work in increasing rates. Political affiliations have literally shifted how we see each other, creating spaces that weren't there 10 years ago. Even as workplaces expand with five generations of workers now in the workforce, people report feeling lonelier than ever.
However, before you throw up your arms believing it will only get worse from here, I see another way, with some intentional adjustments to how we engage with one another. With information and with technology, we can shift perspectives. We can bridge divides, and we can lead by example along the way.
To help us take on this conversation, I have two experts in residence here at Mission Partners with us today. Bridget Pooley is Mission Partner's chief operating officer, and Brian Fox is Mission Partner's chief strategy officer. Together, we have been tracking this issue. We've been watching it and talking about it. Together today, with our audience, we will explore how we see connections being strengthened and stressed in the workplace. As is always the case with Mission Forward shows, we will discuss several practical opportunities for bringing your team and your community back together. Let's get to it. Hi my friends. Thanks for being here today.
Bridget Pooley:
Thanks for having us, Carrie.
Brian Fox:
Great to be here.
Carrie Fox:
As we get into this, it might help by maybe defining what we mean when we say bridging divides, right? What is that and what is it not? Bridget, I wonder if you want to get us started.
Bridget Pooley:
It always helps to start with what it's not and what we're not going for is trying to, again, 100% agreement or consensus on things. But when we talk about bridging divides, it's really about building empathy, understanding across the group of people. We see that you can find that common ground when you listen and understand and seek to find that point of a life.
Again, not looking for 100% agreement. We're going to talk about a lot of different examples, but when I think about, I just read an article in the Stanford Social Innovation Review last week that talked about outcomes for medical patients. In instances where there's more incivility in the workplace, medical patients are actually having higher rates of mortality and more medical errors. It's theoretical in nature, but there's real outcomes for us as individuals as we think about creating those moments of alignment and bridging divide.
Carrie Fox:
Yeah. There's both the physical and mental issues at stake that we need to think through. The implications of this.
Brian Fox:
I think the idea of perspective shifting and willingness, you said in the physical, I think willingness to put yourself in spaces of difference. I think back to a teacher, an educator I had many years back who just did a wonderful job. He shared with us how he would go into different places of worship that were outside of his immediate faith, or he would go into different communities and share food, get to know the people making his food, get to know the people serving his food, speak their language, and get better at speaking that language.
So he was a willing participant in shifting his perspective. I think that goes so far with people when we're trying to bridge divides, as you say. I just think there's something to be said for allowing the time and the space for that and being willing to go there.
Carrie Fox:
For a long time, I think back to some of the early years of our collective work, and we talked about the power of being in like-minded spaces, how much work can move forward when you're with values aligned people? The reality is the more diverse a space, the more innovation can come from that space. Right?
Brian Fox:
Yeah.
Carrie Fox:
We don't necessarily want to think about bridging divides as getting everyone to agree, right? We want to be able to celebrate and acknowledge and understand that differences in spaces are really important to innovation. I was talking to somebody last week and he said, "It is easy to criticize or judge someone when you hear someone who has a different viewpoint than your own." It is much harder to actually sit and listen and understand their point of view.
I think that's going to be a theme we take on today, is what are actually the techniques for how we can listen to understand versus listening and going right to judging. Because that's what a lot of we see today, right? It's easy to judge, it's harder to understand.
Brian Fox:
Yeah, I think that's right, Carrie. I mean, I think when you shift your perspective, you increase fundamentally your ability to understand the other.
Carrie Fox:
Yeah.
Brian Fox:
I think that goes so far for business leaders today to be thinking about how they can themselves put themselves willingly into spaces to shift their perspective, to change the orientation and elevate their understanding, so when it comes time to communicate outwardly that they're responding in the best way or maybe choosing not to respond in certain circumstances, based upon that increased perspective.
Carrie Fox:
Let's pick up on that, because I think there's something really important there. We've already said it's hard to talk across divides. It's hard to understand when we have differences in our way, particularly differences in identity. We often lack the tools to help us graciously navigate a conversation when we are in a space with someone who has a decidedly different viewpoint or identity as our own.
Often what I hear is folks will say, "You know what? I just chose not to say anything. I just chose to step back from that conversation or graciously exit that conversation." But again, we're missing something in that moment of how we learn to engage across those divides. So I want you, Brian, to keep talking on this one. What are your go-to strategies for connecting across divides?
Brian Fox:
Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I am that person that has sometimes not come forward. I've sort of relented and maybe let an opportunity to speak up go by here and there, but I think when I do move into that space of engagement, I find that story is a useful technique. I mean, I think we're wired for stories as people.
I think about Michael Curry, presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church. He talks about using story as a way to find common ground. I think that's a super instructive way to think about how to connect with someone, especially in the case of identity, as I think you just pointed out, using story, giving someone the space to share their story. Gosh, that is showing respect, but also cleverly you're learning, you're elevating your understanding by just giving that space for that story to come forward. Again, as leaders, whether business or outside of business, if we can think about finding opportunities to encourage others to share their story and share our own, we're comfortable. I think that can be a really interesting way to connect with people.
Bridget Pooley:
I love that, Brian. One place we've seen that work really well is in some of the community led initiatives that we've supported at Mission Partners. We see people telling their story, really illustrating how challenges that their family might be facing, how we're developing the solutions for those by really listening and immersing ourselves in stories.
The other thing that comes up for me with that is sometimes when you've got a lot of different perspectives in the room, which is the case with some of the community led work we do, it can get super chaotic because you've got six organizations that are all fighting for the same funding dollars, for example, or you've got a police chief, and a school superintendent, and a mom who've got really what could look like conflicting priorities there. A lot of the time what we think about for bridging these divides is looking for consent-based decision making instead of consensus-based decision making.
We're not looking, as we said at the top, bridging divide is not getting everyone 100% to the same idea, but instead talking about what can you live with, what decision do you feel most comfortable with? I know Carrie, you and I have been in rooms with boards and other groups where we've had people do by finger voting, and it almost feels a little elementary to have a bunch of boards and directors holding up their hands, indicating their stance on something. But really what we're striving for is to get people, if you think about five as 100% yes, and you've got people voicing their opinions about why they're at a three or a two. We're not aiming for everyone in the room to be at a five, but instead thinking about that consent base and what can you live within a decision as another tool to move the work forward.
Carrie Fox:
That reminds me of another technique. We use Bridget, the signals exercise where we set up a conversation and maybe we're at a really key decision point in a conversation and we say, "All right, picture yourself at a traffic light. You're rolling up to that traffic light. You see the green, the yellow, the red. Green is all systems go. You're feeling good about where we are and how the conversation's taking shape.
Yellow is you've got some pause points. You might be able to get going eventually, but you want to slow down for a minute and dig into something. Red is full stop. We got to dig into something that is just not sitting right. We often use that phrase rumble with vulnerability from our friend Brene Brown. But it gives folks a chance to enter into the space with some structure and we literally color in the traffic light as we're hearing from folks, and it gives us a sense of where do we stop?
We really have to stop here and talk through some things together. Where do we actually find that we've generally got agreement and we're going to keep going? Whatever the device or technique is, it does sound like that's a really important part of being able to hear across divides, understand them, understand where the pain points are, and then move forward as a collective.
I want to talk about this idea of facilitating understanding and collaboration across age groups specifically. You heard me when I started that there are five distinct generations active in our workforce, and that is essential. There is so much value and experience and unique point of view and perspective represented in such a diverse age demographic in any workforce today or community. That said, there are very distinct and different ways that generations process share and communicate information. I want to hear from each of you on some ways you've guided clients or have seen work play out that we can share with our listeners on how to bridge that age divide.
Bridget Pooley:
The pandemic is such an interesting case of this being exacerbated, because as we think about communication preferences across generations, we've got some of our Silent Generation and Baby Boomers really preferring and even Gen-X to some extent preferring that in-person face-to-face time. Then you see this trend towards digital as you move into Millennials. Then certainly the mind- blowing incredible digital natives of Gen Z. There's some natural tension points that exist.
I'm thinking about some work we did with the client where they were coming back from the height of the pandemic, shifting to a new hybrid work environment and all of a sudden these age differences of communication style preferences were really coming to a head. Carrie, I know we talk about this a lot, using a Period at the End of the Sentence of the sentence being really triggering for some Gen Z and Millennial folks, but being a sign of respect and formality in communications that maybe a Baby Boomer might prefer and sees as a symbol of respect.
We worked with a team and often what we'll do when we're helping a leadership team navigate something, and especially if we see a little bit more of a homogenous group of leaders in terms of age or experience at an organization, is set up a team, a advisory council if you will, of folks from across the organization that represent different ages, or tenures, or identities and experiences. Then have that group help us define, and this is set of workplace communication norms to help balance some of the tension that was coming about with Zoom Chat all of a sudden becoming this new primary tool for communication, where so many people were so used to that in-person, everyone used to be in the office. There was a huge meeting culture. Then how do you balance those and how do you set expectations and workplace norms and agreements about use of Zoom chat?
It was great. This team came up with probably slightly too long, maybe 20 page document of all of our shared team [inaudible 00:14:55], but they had a chance as a team to define some of those tools and how to use them. It was a good learning opportunity across ages. It doesn't always have to be a source of misunderstanding intention, though it can be.
Carrie Fox:
You know, Bryant, this is reminding me of a sign that hangs in our dining room, which is our family rules. When we set our family rules or family agreements, when our girls were very little, we said, "Girls, you come up with the rules of the house," and we worked as a family to figure out what those rules were going to be and how we were going to hold each other accountable to them, versus me and Brian saying, "All right, this is the way it is here. Don't break the rules in the Fox house." It's very similar.
Brian Fox:
Yeah, I mean there's involvement in that. When I was listening to Bridget there, I started to go toward... Well, it starts with knowing the audience, but then being comfortable with presenting variety in your communication mediums I think. In a couple instances I can think of now, we've contemplated intently like, "Look, we need to meet people in different ways. If they're going to cross a spectrum, sometimes it's going to need to be video. Maybe it needs to be an exploration of a podcast or some sort of audio modality." I think a willingness to be curious, try different techniques with audience in mind as young as they might be in the case of the example you started there with and up and down the age spectrum.
Carrie Fox:
Yeah, it's hard to bridge divides if you're only communicating one way consistently. Those hard norms that organizations almost become on autopilot about. It's a good reminder that if you are seeking to bridge divides, whether they are across age divides or other identity factors, that it's a good idea to have a check-in with the team and determine what's going to work best for us. What's our collective strategy to communicate with each other?
I'll also put another plug in there, Bridget, what you talked about earlier, that period at the end of a sentence, that is one of my favorite books. It's a book called Digital Body Language. If you're looking for a good read, it is fabulous and the author talks about how different generations understand and process literally the digital communication forms.
If you are texting, the differences in how one person might text with very formal punctuation and what the person on the other end could perceive the message to be, compared to someone who doesn't use any punctuation, and then for an older generation how they would perceive that message. So, really important to, comes back to where we started, understand in order to bridge divides and communicate more effectively.
Bridget Pooley:
I remember I worked with a gentleman who was a member of the Silent Generation in a job of many years ago, and we gave him feedback that when he sent us an email early in the morning said, "Please come into my office when you get here." That it induced panic, right? A Period at the end of the sentence. He started putting a smiley face in at the end of those messages and then it became the thing that he did. We all loved it, but that was a sign of someone kind of adapting their style to fit what the team needed. We probably could have made some adjustments on our side, too,
Carrie Fox:
Yeah, but that's an important acknowledgement that a little bit of give and take on all sides really matters. Let's stick with this thing about norms for a minute, because we talk a lot about this at Mission Partners and with our clients, the importance of understanding who holds power, also who holds the pen and what that says in terms of how you communicate and what you expect your listener to understand of you, but to be able to maybe disrupt some of those norms.
In recent years, the three of us have all guided different types of clients through their communications journey, challenging those communications norms along the way, determining where their own communication is potentially helping or hurting their message getting through. I want to hear from each of you again and this time maybe Brian, we'll have you go first, but what are some of the most effective ways you have seen leaders challenge norms? Now, this doesn't even have to be an example of ours, but someone you've seen that's kind of a best practice, who is challenging norms in the way that they communicate and bridge divides in the process?
Brian Fox:
That's interesting. I mean, I think I alluded to the word of curiosity. It's an interesting cultural mindset that an organization needs to have. I think I'm thinking of an example perhaps drawn to it because of the naming convention they went with here. But Marist College is doing some interesting work in short form video in a series that they're calling Between Two Foxes. It's a nod to their Red Fox mascot.
It's simple. It's a simple execution. It's a one-on-one style interview, but between the college president and some member of the community. But what's fascinating to me about it is the interviewer is the college president, right? It's a flip on that you would think they're interviewing the college president on different topics and different ways, but no, it's the college president going out and talking with a hospitality worker, or a new coach, or a prospective student and getting a take on what Marist College is to them learning deeper about the community from a different lens. It shows, well certainly shows the president's comfort to do that, but the approachability that comes across for the college, the humility, the humble nature of that president, engaging in that way, I think just is very well done. Smart execution.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's a great example of literal perspective shift and challenging the power dynamics to have that president sit in a very different seat.
Brian Fox:
That's right.
Speaker 3:
All right, Bridget, we're coming to the end of time and I want to get in another question for you. So let me tee this one up and then I've got a final question for both of you. You do so much of this work where you are guiding leaders to listen really closely, ear to the ground, understand issues. I'd love to hear if you've got an example that's coming to mind on how you have guided leaders to listen closely to their teams and how that listening can help create a culture of learning and listening across divides.
Bridget Pooley:
We do, I mentioned before, these advisory councils staff. This is a trick we use a lot to, especially when we've got a more homogenous group of leaders. I think in general we're still looking at 70%, 80% of nonprofit leadership or chaired than executive directors identify as white. Certainly when we are looking at leadership teams that don't reflect the diversity either of the team or the population that they're working to support, this can be such a great tool to build a staff advisory, working group, culture working group, whatever you want to call it, and recruit folks with different tenures and across different teams and different ages and experiences and identities and backgrounds and interests and all of the above.
We have found this to be so effective. We've done this quite a bit around developing organizational values, where we'll certainly start with leadership and say we coach them through what they want the values to be. Then I'll take those same questions to the staff working group and stress test those values and the statements. We've gotten some really incredible results from that.
I can think of one example, we're really close to finalizing Athena values. We brought it to the committee, and this is an organization that serves a pretty large Spanish speaking population. And the leadership team didn't catch that. There was a couple words in terms of phrases here and there that would really get lost in translation or maybe not have quite the same impact read by someone for whom English wasn't a primary language. If we didn't have that committee there to check us and look over the work, we probably would've missed it.
Then the other piece of course is it adds buy-in, right? If you've got people or if you're a team member who's maybe a little bit more junior, a little newer to the organization, but your colleague was on that committee and maybe has a similar identity as you, or experienced you with the organization, your perspective maybe was brought into the values conversation versus a leadership team saying, "Hey team, here's your values." We see so much value in bad really driving the culture of advice and feedback and conversation across an organization.
Carrie Fox:
Wow. I love that. Here's my last question for you. I'm going to ask you each to wrap us up and then as noted, we've got a great audience with us. So we'll wrap up the official conversation and then get into some more questions. What is one strategy you each use personally to remain present and connected with your colleagues?
Bridget Pooley:
I think multitasking is so hard to avoid, and I think it's just gotten worse with the pandemic. I have a prop, Carrie, I know folks who are listening won't be able to hear it, but this is my phone locker and it is a very low tech device that allows me to lock up my phone. I'm trying to finish up at night or really want to go head down into a document that I don't want pinging and Twitter or the weather to distract me. I love to lock my phon up for a few hours that just have some totally undistracted time. Fabulous example. Thank you.
Brian Fox:
Now I know Bridget's either not responding to me because of the locker or because I put a period at the wrong sentences. Good, good to know. I've learned much here. I think for me, maybe two and you said one, two, maybe. I think I try to apply some of the things we do in our own presentation training. I think when we demonstrate active listening with people in our proximity, whether in person or even in a setting like this, active listening, reading the room, reading the energy, watching body language, that just gives you the opportunity to have the information to know how to engage back in a more meaningful way.
Maybe the second one would just be in maybe the case of not being physically present with someone. I try to reach out to people when I don't need anything and just so my name pops up, it's not my "Oh, my gosh, what does this person need from me now kind of vibe. I just say hi. And I'll sometimes say, I don't need anything from you, but I just want to check in with you and be available. I think of being available is an important way to show respect for someone and that you're there for them when the time comes.
Carrie Fox:
So here's my top five I'm taking away from this conversation. If we're thinking about how to bridge divides and the elements that we can take from this conversation and practice. You all know I love a good practice. Start with story, right? We all have them and we know that that is the best way that our minds understand complex information. More importantly, understand each other. So start with story.
Be aware of norms because there may be norms that are creating unnecessary divides between you and those you are trying to connect with. Be willing to listen, to understand. It's easy to listen and judge it is much harder to listen, to understand,
Get in spaces where you can listen and learn. Get out of your comfort zone. Get out of your like-minded view. Think about where you can go, where you can listen, where you can show up to really listen to understand. Then that last one that Brian, you just finished us off with, be present. It's a hard one to practice, but it's probably the most important one.
As I knew it would be, this was a great conversation with many practical tips that we can take forward. I think it's just showing up to be the leaders that we need, to practice and model the kind of work that we want our larger community and certainly our elected leaders to practice. It starts with us. So thanks for being here and sharing some of your great tips with us.
Brian Fox:
Thank you.
Carrie Fox:
All right, that wraps up this wonderful conversation of the Mission Forward podcast. Thank you all for being with us today and being part of this wonderful conversation. Again, if you're listening in and would love to be part of a future of Mission Forward Live, drop me a line over carrie.atmission.partners. Thanks, and we will see you next time.
That brings us to the end of another episode of Mission Forward. If you like what you heard today, I hope you'll stop right now and give this show a five star rating wherever you are listening to this podcast, maybe even forward it to a friend who you think would enjoy today's conversation. Of course, check out the show notes for all of the links referenced in today's show.
Mission Forward is produced with the support and wisdom of Pete Wright and the true story production team, as well as the wonderful Sadie Lockhart of Mission Partners. You can learn more about our work over at mission/.us, and of course reach out to me anytime at Carrie@mission.partners. Thanks for tuning in today, friend, and I'll see you next time.
